Legal question about non-resident ownership (Maine and NH)

[Vincent Vash]

Hello all, it's been a while since I have been on here. I have a question regarding the legality of being a Maine resident and having a gun in NH. I am 21, and I will be getting my CCW from Maine (which is, as stated, my home). I read through the NH gov articles on non-residency carry and it seems as long as I have my license from Maine first it should not be that big of an issue getting one in NH. However, I was also told from another source that if you are out of state you CANNOT keep a gun in NH...? (Furthermore, if I don't plan to carry concealed do I even need a permit?)

The reason for this question is because I attend college in NH and I enjoy target shooting quite a bit, but the closest range to my school is the Manchester Firing Line (they rent, since I don't currently own a gun it's really my only option). However, shooting at a range like that can get very expensive, so I have been looking into getting my own gun for the range (they were the ones who told me I could not bring an out of state gun). I am not worried about carrying in concealed (the reason for a CCW for me would be ease of transportation) and I have no problem keeping it unloaded and locked until use. I was hoping somebody on here could tell me if it is indeed ok for me to be out of state and have a gun instate.

Sorry for how long winded this post is, not sure how else to ask what I wish to. Thank you all for your time.

 

[Birch Knoll]

it seems as long as I have my license from Maine first it should not be that big of an issue getting one in NH

Once you have your Maine carry permit, it is quite easy to get a New Hampshire nonresident permit. It's a shame the two states don't recognize each other's permits, but at least it's easy, if somewhat expensive, to get.

However, I was also told from another source that if you are out of state you CANNOT keep a gun in NH

That is, to the best of my knowledge, total BS.

Furthermore, if I don't plan to carry concealed do I even need a permit?

Nope. Open carry is legal in NH, by the way.

 

[Vincent Vash]

Once you have your Maine carry permit, it is quite easy to get a New Hampshire nonresident permit. It's a shame the two states don't recognize each other's permits, but at least it's easy, if somewhat expensive, to get.



That is, to the best of my knowledge, total BS.



Nope. Open carry is legal in NH, by the way.

To clarify, the question about out of state ownership came about when I asked the person at the MFL if I could have a gun ordered online sent to them as the FFL third party, and they told me the could not transfer it if my residency was from Maine and that if I brought a gun from Maine and stored it in NH it was illegal... it seemed rather odd to me so that is why I wanted another opinion on the topic, especially after reading the NH state laws. So to clarify;

If I am from Maine, going to school in NH, and I wish to have a handgun (obviously not on campus), as long as I am legally allowed to/not barred from owning one, I can do so without issue, and as long as I don't wish to carry concealed I do not need a permit either way if I A) Open Carry or B) Transport unloaded.

So the last question on this topic is, can I have a gun shipped to a NH FFL and have it transferred to me in NH, or do I have to buy it in Maine and bring it down?

 

[Birch Knoll]

To clarify, the question about out of state ownership came about when I asked the person at the MFL if I could have a gun ordered online sent to them as the FFL third party, and they told me the could not transfer it if my residency was from Maine

Assuming the gun is question is a handgun, this is true. You can only have a handgun transferred to you by an FFL in the state in which you reside.

and that if I brought a gun from Maine and stored it in NH it was illegal

Can't see how this would be. Out-of-state hunters bring firearms into NH all the time. Is it possible that you misunderstood something?

f I am from Maine, going to school in NH, and I wish to have a handgun (obviously not on campus), as long as I am legally allowed to/not barred from owning one, I can do so without issue, and as long as I don't wish to carry concealed I do not need a permit either way if I A) Open Carry or B) Transport unloaded.

I think you'd be best off getting the NH CCW license, if the fee isn't a deal-breaker. Open carry invites too much official interest, and having the NH license inoculates you from any inadvertent violations of NH CCW statutes.

So the last question on this topic is, can I have a gun shipped to a NH FFL and have it transferred to me in NH

No, you cannot do that.

or do I have to buy it in Maine and bring it down?

That should be fine.

 

[NavyLCDR]

So the last question on this topic is, can I have a gun shipped to a NH FFL and have it transferred to me in NH, or do I have to buy it in Maine and bring it down?

No, you cannot do that.

He most certainly CAN do that! The op states:

The reason for this question is because I attend college in NH

Please refer to pages 126-127 of this document
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

27 CFR 178.11: MEANING OF TERMS

An out-of-State college student may establish residence in a State by residing and maintaining a home in a college dormitory or in a location off-campus during the school term.

ATF Rul. 80-21

"State of residence" is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the State in which an individual regularly resides or maintains a home. The regulation also provides an example of an individual who maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. The individual regularly resides in State X except for the summer months and in State Y for the summer months of the year. The regulation states that during the time the individual actually resides in State X he is a resident of State X, and during the time he actually resides in State Y he is a resident of State Y.

Applying the above example to out-of-State college students it is held, that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off-campus home is located. During the time out-of-state college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State.

Vincent, you can purchase a handgun from an FFL in either state. Maine, when you return home to live there for part of the year, or New Hampshire when you live there in the dorms or off-campus location. Once you have the handgun, you can transport it and possess it in either state. You can also purchase a handgun from a private party resident of the same state you are currently a resident of, without FFL involvement. Keep in mind that not all FFLs will know what the law and ATF actually say about what your state of residence is.

Notice on page 136 of the above reference document:

ATF recognizes, however, that some valid government-issued identification documents do not include the bearer's current residence address. Such an identification document may be supplemented with another valid government-issued document that contains the necessary information.

Thus, for example, a licensee may accept a valid driver's license that accurately reflects the purchaser's name, date of birth, and photograph, along with a vehicle registration issued by the State indicating the transferee's current address.
...
The licensee must record on the Form 4473 the type of identification document(s) presented by the transferee, including any document number. Examples of documents that may be accepted to supplement information on a driver's license or other identification document include a vehicle registration, a recreation identification card, a fishing or hunting license, a voter identification card, or a tax bill. However, the document in question must be valid and must have been issued by a government agency.

That is how a college student residing in New Hampshire would purchase a handgun using a driver's license from Maine to establish identity, and a secondary government-issued document to establish current residence address in New Hampshire. On the form 4473 enter the actual state you are residing in at the time of purchase, New Hampshire when living there for college and Maine when returning there to live.

 

[Birch Knoll]

He most certainly CAN do that!

Well, no, not in this case (I think). He does attend college in NH, but he lives across the border in Maine (or at least that's how I read his post). If he lived in a dorm at the NH college, no problem. But if he's living in, say Kittery, and going to school across the river in Portsmouth, no dice.

Vincent, you're the only one who knows for sure: Do you live in NH, in a dorm, or otherwise? If so, you are indeed a NH resident for the purpose of buying a gun. If, on the other hand, you live in Maine and drive across the border to go to school, then you are not a NH resident, and cannot obtain a handgun there.

 

[Vincent Vash]

Well, no, not in this case (I think). He does attend college in NH, but he lives across the border in Maine (or at least that's how I read his post). If he lived in a dorm at the NH college, no problem. But if he's living in, say Kittery, and going to school across the river in Portsmouth, no dice.

Vincent, you're the only one who knows for sure: Do you live in NH, in a dorm, or otherwise? If so, you are indeed a NH resident for the purpose of buying a gun. If, on the other hand, you live in Maine and drive across the border to go to school, then you are not a NH resident, and cannot obtain a handgun there.

I should have been more clear, I DO reside in the dorms at the school I attend, being that I live 5+ hours away in Maine.

So, if I have some official formed mailed to me at my dorm address, I can use that in combination with my Maine drivers license to establish that although I have permanent residency in Maine, since I am residing in the campus dorms for the semester I *am* a NH resident for the purposes of getting a handgun transferred to me in NH. And unlike some cases were you need to stay in a place for say a year (to get say, instate college tuition) as long as I am in the dorms at all it is ok?

IE, I can start the semester, buy the gun online, have it shipped to a local FFL, and when I go to pick it up show them that I have mail sent to an address (even if it is X college road, Some place, NH), and even if my license is Maine that will fly...

Sorry if I am confused...

 

[NavyLCDR]

Read the last quote in my post #5. You need more than just mail. You need a government-issued document that shows your NH residence on it. Before you have a gun sent to a New Hampshire FFL, make sure and work out the details with them ahead of time. Show them the government-issued document that you intend to use to establish New Hampshire residence and make sure they will accept it.

There is no minimum time limit to establish residency for the purposes of Federal firearms transaction laws. The minute you step foot in a state with the intention of living there for a reason such as working there, stationed there in the military, or going to school there, you are a resident of that state.

 

[Birch Knoll]

I should have been more clear, I DO reside in the dorms at the school I attend, being that I live 5+ hours away in Maine.

Well, there you have it, then: You can obtain a handgun in NH. I'm assuming that you have a Maine drivers license, which is fine for ID, but you'll also need a government-issued document of some sort showing your residence address in NH. You'll also need an FFL who understands this, and it doesn't sounds like the guy at MFL does. You may need to educate him, or use somebody else. Make sure your FFL is willing to do the transfer with the identification documents you have, before you have the gun sent to him.

 

[Vincent Vash]

I apologize, I misunderstood that part until I re-read it. Thanks to both of you for taking the time to answer my question, I really appreciate it. Now I just need to figure out what kind of government-issued document I should get... probably voters...

Of course, I can still buy a handgun from a private sale in NH, correct?

 

[Birch Knoll]

If you're attending a State-run school, your student ID may do nicely, if it gives your address. Otherwise, if you are eligible to vote in NH, a voter registration card with your address on it (if they have such cards in NH), a hunting or fishing license, or a library card (so long as it's a state, county or municipal library) will all do. You might be able to get a NH non-driver ID card from the DMV, which would make your gun-buying life much less complicated.

You are legal to purchase guns in private sales in NH, although some sellers may not be sure they can legally sell to you, if they bother to ask for proof of residency.

 

[Vincent Vash]

If you're attending a State-run school, your student ID may do nicely, if it gives your address. Otherwise, if you are eligible to vote in NH, a voter registration card with your address on it (if they have such cards in NH), a hunting or fishing license, or a library card (so long as it's a state, county or municipal library) will all do. You might be able to get a NH non-driver ID card from the DMV, which would make your gun-buying life much less complicated.

You are legal to purchase guns in private sales in NH, although some sellers may not be sure they can legally sell to you, if they bother to ask for proof of residency.

Well, you and NavyLCDR have cleared up my questions on the matter, again, thanks to both of you for taking the time to help me figure this out, it is very much appreciated.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Well, you and NavyLCDR have cleared up my questions on the matter, again, thanks to both of you for taking the time to help me figure this out, it is very much appreciated.

Your biggest roadblock is going to be to convince the seller/FFL what the real law is, many won't believe you. If you deal with an FFL, look at the instructions on the form 4473. In the instructions it explains about using two separate ID documents.

 

[Kleanbore]

There are better sources for legal advice.

 

[Birch Knoll]

There are better sources for legal advice.

Of course there are. On the other hand, what is the purpose of this forum topic? Oh, wait, here it is:

Get informed on issues affecting the right to keep and bear arms. Coordinate activism, debate with allies and opponents. Discuss laws concerning firearm ownership, concealed carry and self-defense.

But be that as it may, are there any sources for information on the law regarding firearms purchases, short of an attorney specializing in firearms law, which you would consider acceptable? If so, whom?

 

[Frank Ettin]

But be that as it may, are there any sources for information on the law regarding firearms purchases, short of an attorney specializing in firearms law,...

All that makes up "the law" is out there available to anyone. Statutes, regulations, ordinances, and court decisions are all public information. The trick, of course, is understanding them and applying them correctly to a particular situation. That's what lawyers are trained to do, but of course anyone with the knowledge can also do so. On the other hand, there's an awful lot of misinformation floating around.

But back to the OP's question.

There are several issues presented.

1. May the OP while present in New Hampshire has possession of a gun?
   
   
   • I suspect that doesn't require determining the OP's State of residency. In general, States usually don't restrict visiting non-residents from possession of firearms as long as the firearms are legal in the State and the person is not disqualified from possessing firearms.
     
     
   • Two notable exceptions are New York and New Jersey, at least with respect to handguns.
     
     
   • This would be a question of state law. Handgunlaw.us would be a good place to start looking for an answer.
   
   
2. May the OP carry a handgun concealed in New Hampshire?
   
   
   • Doing so requires a permit recognized by New Hampshire. New Hampshire doesn't recognize non-resident permits issued by other States and doesn't have reciprocity with Maine.
     
     
   • But New Hampshire is shall issue and will also issue a non-resident permit to someone with a permit from his home State.
     
     
   • Since the OP is living in New Hampshire, there may be a question of whether the OP is a resident of New Hampshire while present there or remains a resident of Maine. That would be a question of New Hampshire state law.
     
     
   • But either as a resident of New Hampshire or as a resident of Maine, the OP should be able to obtain a New Hampshire CCW.
   
   
3. Interstate transfer of a handgun.
   
   
   • This is a matter of federal law. Under federal law, the OP would be a resident of New Hampshire while living in New Hampshire attending school.
     
     
   • Therefore, while living in New Hampshire attending school he could legally, under federal law, buy and have transferred to him a handgun in New Hampshire.
     
     
   • His challenge would be to document his New Hampshire residency status in an acceptable manner. He would probably be able to secure a New Hampshire drivers' license or ID.

 

[Birch Knoll]

That's cheating, Frank... you are an attorney. I wanted to know who Kleanbore would consider a satisfactory source of information, since Navy and I didn't seem to meet his criteria.

 

[Vincent Vash]

Well, I called a local gun-shop near my school and they said as long as I have the secondary ID it would be fine... but I called the DMV and was told that I cannot be a resident of multiple states under NH law... I was calling to ask what papers I would need to bring and they said that I can't even get a non-drivers ID if I have one from Maine... there goes that plan >.<