LEO unravels over sticker

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You don't like the words I use? You think that my behaviour might have a bad influence on minors? Gee, that's tough...
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What if I walk up to your family, and just start shouting obscenities as loudly as I can at them? Please note that I am purposely not threatening you, just shouting loud obscenities directly at you? Are you just going to say, 'Oh, too bad for us? He has the right to shout whatever he wants at us?'

As I said in another thread, I believe in the 2nd amendment (not that that needed to be said), but I don't support the right to march around town with an AR loaded with blanks, shooting them off.
 
Myself,

I would weigh in with Trooper and Tory on their analysis.

Protection of rights for ALL.

Now having said that, those kind of bumper stickers or speech just indicate the social impotence those people live with in their minds.
 
What if I walk up to your family, and just start shouting obscenities as loudly as I can at them? Please note that I am purposely not threatening you, just shouting loud obscenities directly at you? Are you just going to say, 'Oh, too bad for us? He has the right to shout whatever he wants at us?'
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I would consider that assault, depending on circumstances. Also depending on circumstances I would have you taken in for observation and possible involuntary admission to a psych facility.
 
We are exhorted to believe that a mere bumper sticker, even one using an obscenity, is such a threat to public safety and morals that:

1. It overrides the freedom of political speech expressly protected by the First Amendment; and
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YEs, sure why not. its totally obvious. if it werent, there wouldnt be ratings on movies, or you would be outraged at those also

2. The police publicly accosting the owner of the vehicle bearing said sticker, banning her from the neighborhood and threatening her with arrest is a justified response.
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uh, no . those police were ridiculous.
 
Aren't the states bound ot the Constitution?
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Parts of the Constitution, yes. The idea that the BOR applies to the states is from the 20th century (dang activist courts). The founding fathers only intended that the BOR limit the power of the federal government. It was up to the individual states in their own constitutions to list the rights they thought were important.

During the early to mid 20th century, the Sup. Ct. used the 14th amendment to apply some provisions of the BOR to state laws and conduct. This was even somewhat of a stretch if you read some of the discussion around the enactment of the 14th amendment.
 
Well, actually I think it was earlier than that. I also think it was the Supreme Court that made that determination. And the SC's rulings are a lot more authoritative than whatever we think the Founder's intentions may have been.
 
I have also been ridiculed and yelled at for a bumper sticker. I have one that
reads:

"Used Sniper Rifle - $1000.00"
"Trip to Afganistan - $800.00"
"Hotel with Rooftop Access - $100.00"
"Scoring a Headshot on a piece of S**T like Osama Bin Laden - PRICELESS"

Now, Personally, I think the sticker is HILARIOUS. And right after 9/11 when
I put it on, I had TONS of people waving and honking, giving thumbs up,
tailgating me just to read it, stopping me in public to tell me how great it was,
ect. ect. Not 1 negative comment.......

NOW HOWEVER, people see it.....get mad, say it is distasteful, call me
crazy, or gun nut, (well, maybe thats due to the gunrack in my truck)
and get pissed about the SAME STICKER, that everyone loved not so long
ago. So many peoples opinions sway with whats IN or OUT in PUBLIC
opinion............. :rolleyes:

Oh well......sorry.....but its STILL a GREAT STICKER.... :neener:
 
Dunno why it's necessary, but anyhow: Rabbi, of course the cop was wrong, and my opinion is that laws against smut are wrong.

All I've ever said is that I have a certain amount of contempt for certain public behaviors...

As far as potty language and bumper stickers, I see nothing wrong with a judicious, careful application of spray paint to the text of the "message". :D

But I'm sorta primitive about things like that...Just another one of my character defects.

Art
 
It was attacked because it was derogatory to Bush. Profane stickers are regularly ignored in many states with laws against them if no one complains vocally enough. Insulting a president for whom many Americans have an unwarranted, fanatical devotion is bound to generate a complaint or two, while a picture of Calvin urinating on the Ford logo is less likely to.

In my case, the word 'Bush' is precisely what caused two complaints and a police visit. After 9/11 people drove around here all the time with bumper stickers that said "F--- Osama and his Mama" and other such colorful metaphors. Nary a complaint. When I drove around with "F--- Bush", I got two complaints and a visit from my university cops. (This was back in my less mature days, mind you!) I asked them why the f--- I couldn't have 'f---' written on my car. They said they had had two complaints. I asked if it was illegal, and they had trouble telling me what the law was on the issue. (I later looked it up.) I asked them if they had ever heard of the First Amendment and the numerous Supreme Court cases protecting all forms of political speech, however unsavory, and they said no to the latter.

Long story short, most people don't care about the F-word unless you put it in front of the name of someone they idolize.
 
I'd care if some guy was walking through the mall yelling the F word. (and I'd want the cops to go talk to the guy)

It's the same exact thing to emblazen the word on your bumper.

Confuscianism would say it invades my sphere of influence. I know the BOR wasn't written based on asian philosophy, but going around being disruptive, disrespectful, and exhibiting crude and callous behavior in front of women and children is really low caliber and shows a repressed state of spiritual development.

Our society today thinks freedom means the ability to be as tasteless as you want; in-your-face type stuff. I see it as unrefined and vulgar (aka common).

What ever happened to 'classy' and 'dignified'? Maybe they'll make a comeback some day.
 
Well it does present an interesting quandry. Heck, in some places it might even get you a poke in the nose.

I believe the word takes its root from the Latin verb "facere" - to make or do. In the Canterbury Tales it is used in the sense of planting a seed. F** the land.

The word has its uses and when used in context of time and place it may be quite appropriate. I think use ot the word shows tasteless behavior but I don't think it illegal.

A question for the SCOTUS and the ages! ;) :D
 
I know the BOR wasn't written based on asian philosophy, but going around being disruptive, disrespectful, and exhibiting crude and callous behavior in front of women and children is really low caliber and shows a repressed state of spiritual development.
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You might be right. But it is not illegal nor is it worthy of LE intimidation. But others, especially in Kali, would say the exact same thing about anyone's "My President Is Charleton Heston" sticker.
 
Profane bumper stickers are childish at best. There's no reason that this person couldn't express their feelings about Bush without resorting to profanity.

The bumper sticker does not use the language to explain why the person doesn't like Bush or agree with his policies. It just makes the driver of the car look like a childish idiot with a limited vocabulary.

I don't see why it should be considered protected speech, because not allowing profanity does not inhibit this person from making a coherent statement of dissent.

Civilized societies do have rules to define acceptable standards of conduct. I don't think the restricting this conduct is inhibiting the free speech of that person.
 
Surprising how little respect free speech gets on this board.

I wouldn't put a profane sticker on my car. I don't swear in front of kids (not even in front of my own kids). I agree with Oleg's policy not to allow cussing on THR. However ... well, see my sig.

pax

Take away the right to say "f---" and you take away the right to say "f--- the government." -- Lenny Bruce
 
I'm amused at the number of people who are pointing out the vulgarity and childishness of the sticker in question without focusing on the real issue: that political speech may not be censored in the US, even if it has naughty words. SCOTUS has consistently defended the First Amendment's application to political speech where they haven't been consistent on its application to other forms of speech. The BOR has been around a lot longer than we have, and Cohen v. CA a lot longer than most of us have.
 
pax - depends on your definition of free speech. I think the other thread floating around has shown us how no one can agree on free speech. We have on one end treason is protected, and on the other, that anything vulgar isn't allowed.

I think that the main disagreement is not that this lady has the right to say what she hates Bush, but just the manner that she chose to do it.
 
. . . political speech may not be censored in the US, even if it has naughty words. SCOTUS has consistently defended the First Amendment's application to political speech . . .
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No they haven't, since SCOTUS upheld the McCain-Feingold First Amendment Repeal Act, also known as Campaign Finance Reform.
 
The Constitution guarantees many rights for us. Included in those are Ms. Bates' right to free political speech. Not included in those rights is the right not to be offended.
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Ninth Amendment.

Just off-paw, I'd say that the Denver PD sergeant needs a couple of years of desk time to help him get his priorities in order.

LawDog
 
Y'all missed the point!!

Obviously this 26 year old babe loves Bush. You have to love someone to even consider doing what that ancient polite English society word suggests: to f--- them. She's in love. Don't bug her. I like Bush but not that much.

Maybe she would have been better off if she had the sticker say "Phuque Bush."

rr
 
"Ban bad words - For the Children!"

"Ban bad words - for the children!"

Good Grief!

So many "it's for the children!" arguments supporting the LEO's actions that it makes me wonder if those folk truly understand "Land of the Free".

"I don't want my child exposed to that kind of language..."
"I don't want my child exposed to guns..."
"I don't want my child exposed to ______"

Tough. They are gonna be exposed to a heck of a lot of stuff weather you like it or not. Get there first, and teach them right from wrong. They may be young, but they are smart. Don't blame the bumper sticker when your kids say a bad word at an inappropriate time.

Dav - a former five year old who knew not to say bad words even if I heard other five year olds say them because my mom told me not to! - id

Dav - I also knew not to EVER touch a gun because both my mom and dad (who were divorced) told me not to, even though neither are anti gun - id

In anycase - Carry On!
 
So, this freedom of speech amendment is written on the same paper as the right to keep and bear arms.

Just like you can't own (well, without jumping thru hoops) a full auto or a bazooka, you can be restricted from saying the bad words. Or protesting in public without a class and a state permit.

The first amendment states clearly that congress can make no laws--not that Colorado can make no laws.

Now, I know we don't like the thought of that and we've been told "we're the land of the free" for so long we like to believe it--you bet it makes us feel good. However, at the end of the day we get what we are given by the government.

Turn up the heat to fast and the frog jumps out of the boiling water, turn it up slow and he'll sit there, enjoying the cozy water. But, you've never seen a frog protesting or carrying a gun.
 
LawDog said:
Ninth Amendment.
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Im offended by that, please arrest yourself, just kidding. Seriously, if the right not to be offended actually existed we would all be in jail. Everyone offends millions of people every day, without exception. What about the pro life billboards that have a dead, bloody fetus being held by a hand in a latex glove, or gay couples in public, or interracial couples, those are very offensive to many people.
 
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