Let me clarify a question about ammo to use in AR for home defense.

[MTMilitiaman]

Exactly. What @MTMilitiaman seems to be pretending is that the bullet will have completely fractured after the first wall, and only preceded through the remaining 11 layers because the fragments were close together.

However, anyone who has shot inside a shoot house, or done any of their own dry wall destruction tests knows the bullet isn’t immediately destroyed.

Also, he’s positing an illogical conclusion - sure, if someone is shooting at you, intentionally, standing disposed from the wall will give opportunity for deflection and divergence. But in an over-penetration case, they aren’t shooting intentionally at you through the wall, so you have just as much chance of being struck by a bullet diverging towards you as being saved by a bullet diverging away from your line. Indeed, maybe common sense isn’t so common.

2” or 12’, if there is nothing more than 2 layers of drywall between you and a muzzle firing a 223/5.56, you’re going to have a bad, bad day. Period.

Again, you don't read very well. I will type this very slow, so maybe you can keep up. The Vmax, as demonstrated in testing, will break up as designed within the first few walls, and once this occurs, the fragments will spread, quickly losing velocity and energy. The Vmax will still go through several walls, as I clearly stated, but will penetrate fewer of them that most projectiles. And once the bullet begins to break up, it will quickly lose the ability to penetrate further barriers. It is all relative, because, for probably the hundredth time, drywall sucks at stopping bullets. You should maybe write that down. We will just take this one step at a time. For now, just remember drywall sucks at stopping bullets. That is the first point. We will go from there when that sinks in.

 

[M1key]

I will wade in here with this video:

Reid Henrichs shoots up his house...



M

 

[amd6547]

For my 16"AR, I have a 20rd Lancer magazine full of PRVI 75gn BTHP, but really, I'm not too picky, when it comes to 5.56. I'd be happy with any 55gn SP, and I have some Guatamala M193 military ammo I would use without a second thought.
BTW, I've found that most commercial 55gm FMJ is not the equal of real M193.

 

[M1key]

Surprisingly, Winchester 5.56 Nato and Federal XM855 are still available at my Walmart.

On the subject of coyotes, a hunter friend who operates a local gun shop says he uses ball exclusively on them and says those will almost cut a coyote in half--especially if they hit bone. At least that is his experience.


M

 

[Balrog]

If it is that big of a deal to you, don't use a firearm for self defense. It really is that simple. Bullets go through walls. There is no getting around that. So you can sleep next to a baseball bat, or you can keep a gun for home defense and accept that any missed rounds are going through at least a few walls.

No reason to be angry here. Just looking to see if there was a round that performed well for defense yet penetrated through building materials less. It seems varmint bullets will penetrate less, but not enough less to make a difference in the average house.

Why become confrontational over peaceful discussion?

sometimes I don’t understand people on gun forum... too serious!

 

[TikkaShooter]

Both great reads... and this is what I mean by yaw dependent... Note the angle of impact...

Back in the day, we called it key holing or the bullet hit the target at an angle; instead of leaving a round hole it left a key hole and the angle was random. I've read the early M16 had a 1:14 twist which did not stabilize the 193; later the military went to the 1:12. As an 11B, the whys were above my pay grade. As I grew up shooting, my thought was the rifle was shot out except it was a new rifle.
Your pictures are spot on as the terminal ballistics were unbelievable.

 

[C-grunt]

I've seen houses and buildings shot up with 5.56. Very rarely do they go all the way through a house. A lot more stuff inside a house besides drywall.

 

[briansmithwins]

The point of the light varmint fragmenting on the first thing they hit is those fragments of the bullet are very non-aerodynamic and shed velocity (and the ability to cause serious injuries) very quickly. The sets of drywall stacked very close together overemphasize the penetration because they don’t have as much air between them as a real room does.

There was a point made that if the an assailant’s arm is shielding their torso a rapidly disintegrating varmint bullet wouldn’t make it into the torso and stop the action. Dumping ~1200 foot pounds on energy into an arm is going to remove a lot of flesh and may amputate it. Personally, I’m ok with fighting the guy who now has one working arm and is currently experiencing a significant emotional event. Maybe he needs another shot, maybe he decides that he’s lost the fight. Either way I’ve still got the remainder of the magazine to finish the argument.

BSW

 

[MTMilitiaman]

No reason to be angry here. Just looking to see if there was a round that performed well for defense yet penetrated through building materials less. It seems varmint bullets will penetrate less, but not enough less to make a difference in the average house.

Why become confrontational over peaceful discussion?

sometimes I don’t understand people on gun forum... too serious!

Why are you over thinking this and taking things confrontational? I was being concise, not confrontational. I am tired of repeating the same information over and over for you. I don't know how many times and how many different ways I have to say the same thing before it sinks in. It gets old. Patience is not my strongest point. That is all.

Bullets are going to penetrate drywall. If over penetration is a concern for you, plan you potential shot angles and move bookshelves and heavy wooden furniture between these angles and other rooms in your house. Or don't use a gun. It isn't rocket science. It is elementary physics. Again, don't over think this.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I will wade in here with this video:

Reid Henrichs shoots up his house...



M

I spent so long trying to find this video for this thread! Thank you!

 

[Balrog]

Good grief. Hopefully a moderator will come along shortly and just lock this thread.

 

[benEzra]

I still guess I am not sure if I would be better off with M193, a varmint bullet like V-Max, or a soft point.

The carbine in my safe has plain Winchester non-bonded 55gr softpoint in the magazine, but I’m not wedded to that choice.

One thing about drywall tests....another reason that drywall tests with realistic wall spacing show much less penetration than tests with closely stacked pieces is that the bullet will often be tumbling after the first wall, so stacking the pieces only inches apart lets the bullet encounter more pieces with a very low yaw angle than otherwise. In the widely separated test linked above, some of the lighter/fragile bullets hit the second wall (third sheet) either sideways, or in two pieces after separating at the cannelure due to tumbling. Realistic wall spacing allows these effects, when they occur, to manifest.

 

[Jim Rau]

Well I don't know about you all but I do not own an AR to shoot drywall, only for fun, yotes, and bandits. When I was on TEU (SWAT) we tested many rounds and actually shoot a few bandits with the AR and like I said earlier, any 55 JSP will do GREAT for the above stated uses. You are way over complicating this issue!!!

 

[Varminterror]

Good grief. Hopefully a moderator will come along shortly and just lock this thread.

It’s your thread, ask for it.

 

[taliv]

It’s a little tasty but I’ve been enjoying reading it. If for nothing else just to note who gives good advice.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

It’s a little tasty but I’ve been enjoying reading it. If for nothing else just to note who gives good advice.

This issue with this thread isn't who gives good advice, but who is open to good advice. This guy has asked the same question over and over and over and over again for four pages. And for four pages pretty much everyone has told him over and over and over and over again not to over think this. He has been advised multiple times that all bullets are going to penetrate a not insignificant amount of drywall, but that certain bullets, like the Vmax, will penetrate less than others. But if you bother pointing this out, it is you who is apparently being confrontational. This guy just isn't open for advise, or this thread would have been done at least two pages ago.

 

[taliv]

Well the threads aren’t owned by the Op. they’re for all members to discuss. The rest of us didn’t feel you were confrontational so don’t sweat it. You’ll be ok.

The debate between fragmenting and expanding bullets remains interesting. Personally I favor fragmenting.