Leupold vx3i

[Musicianized]

Question for anyone with CDS experience.

I've been researching a ton of scopes and some or maybe all, vari power scopes change p.o.i. when zoomed, and some BDC reticles etc aren't even accurate on some scopes unless they are on max magnification.

So with the vx3i, can I use the dial on 4.5 power and have it accurate for each setting? I mean say I set it to shoot 400yds and have it on 4.5 and decide I want to zoom more to see better.. will that change the accuracy of the reticle?

 

[Chuck R.]

OK, as I understand your question:

The CDS dial is adjusting your POI, just like when you initially zero. Zooming in/out has no concern-able effect on POA-POI.

BDC reticles and Mil Dots on a scope with a 2nd focal plane reticle are effected by zooming in/out.

How much, depends. IF you really want to play with this (and you should) get a ballistic APP like Strelok Pro. You can set up a "test" rifle, scope, load and play with the different levels of zooming in/out. Some of the scope manufactures with 2FPs actually sort of make it a feature that you can zoom in/out to 'set" your BDC to your cartridge. It does work to some extent. I just record my actual BDC vaules along with my CDS dope on a drop chart taped to my rifle.

My "errors" with BDC are normally around 20-30 increased yards out to 500 due to my MC and BC. I mitigate that by using the top of the dot for my aim point. Even with a 30+ yard error, it's still well within a kill zone and I find it more accurate than using the MPBR method.

Your main cross hairs/primary aiming point will still be good to go. They can be effected on a 2FP scope, but it's so minute as to be not an issue. I did have a cheap variable when I was young that literally changed POI based on the magnification. Lesson learned was no more cheap variables.

The way to mitigate is to zero and test at your highest magnification the theory goes that this "should" be the magnification you'll be at for your longest shots. At the lesser distances and subsequent lower power the errors have no effect.

 

[<*(((><]

Your magnification settings only effect subtension on your reticle. So your drop lines on your reticle are only good on a second-focal plane reticle at full power. Whereas on a first-focal plane reticle subtension is correct at any magnification. Reticle subtension is the area of the target that your reticle covers.

But more direct to your question a Leupold CDS dial is operating the erector of your scope and will be accurate at any magnification same as if you would adjust a scope when zeroing.

 

[stillquietvoice]

My Nikon monarch mildot 4-16x42 has the MIL marks at 12x not 16x. Either way on paper I'm at Max magnification unless it's real close range, inside 100 yds.

 

[Varminterror]

The question is simpler than all of this...

The dials don’t care what zoom you pick. The dial shifts the erector tube, so I’d you dial to 400 yards, it’s always 400 yards.

That said, the CDS deal is a gimmick, not worth the time.

 

[<*(((><]

For those who shoot one load in a rifle the CDS system makes sense. So for strictly a hunter who’s chronographed his load and verified the trajectory over distance with drops and gets a CDS dial to match said load it makes a lot of sense.

Other than that, yes it is pretty gimmicky.

 

[Musicianized]

The question is simpler than all of this...

The dials don’t care what zoom you pick. The dial shifts the erector tube, so I’d you dial to 400 yards, it’s always 400 yards.

That said, the CDS deal is a gimmick, not worth the time.

Lol I don't see how turning a dial to 700yds and being on target at 700yds is a gimmick?


I don't plan on shooting different loads. I plan on trying a variety and using what my gun shoots best.

If I want to switch to something different it's not hard to figure out the difference of a few clicks. It seems more convenient to me than gimmicky, especially in a hunting situation.

 

[Varminterror]

For those who shoot one load, at one location, in one barometric pressure, at one temperature, in one humidity.... sure...

 

[<*(((><]

The big question for the OP is what is the intended use for this rifle? Probably, should get this question out of the way first. So often with the wide array of types of shooters on this forum, there is personal views on matters. It's always good to understand the OP's question fully.

I don't use custom dials as I like to dial in a shot.

But there are quite a few hunters bringing home game with CDS dials, that you can be sure of. There just isn't enough difference in trajectory for a vast number of hunters who hunt in the same area year in and year out. If a hunter is hunting in the same general location at hunting distances of under 400 yards every year within a few 1,000 feet of elevation difference, +/- 20 degrees in weather, and +/-20% humidity there just isn't enough difference in trajectory for it to not work out on big game at ethical distances. Now if you are a long range hunter shooting out past 700 yards on big game (what I consider a long shot, as there is always opportunity to get closer), then there is no way you should be using CDS dials.

It is up to the person ordering the CDS dials to find an average of all the atmospheric information for when they are hunting. Even if one takes the atmospheric to more of the extremes one is only talking about a 4-5" difference in drop at 500 yards with a 180gr 30-06 at 2,750fps. My hunting environment with a single rifle doesn't change enough to worry about that. And that's worst case scenario. If I do get into environmental changes it would be in the differences mentioned above in bold, where the difference in drop is insignificant on big game under 500 yards.
​

There isn't one time that I've referenced barometric pressure or relative humidity in my shots on game. I do see what my load will do at elevation and temperature but that's about it.

 

[Musicianized]

For those who shoot one load, at one location, in one barometric pressure, at one temperature, in one humidity.... sure...

Man some of you guys are so serious.

I'm just killing deer... In Michigan, mostly in the same county, on the same hill.

 

[<*(((><]

Man some of you guys are so serious.

I'm just killing deer... In Michigan, mostly in the same county, on the same hill.

What's your farthest shot? Is that the only place you use that rifle? What cartridge are you using?

If the answer is "200 yards or less" and "yes" and "bottlenecked of some sorts". Then just setup a rifle with a scope in a moderate magnification range such as a 2-7 with a zero for "max point blank range (MPBR)" and be done with it. If you know your velocity out of your rifle and bullet you are using I can help you with it. Dialing a scope is for a different scenario than what you are experiencing in your hunting scenario, if I'm right on the three questions above. The distances that one experiences in Michigan (and correct me if I'm wrong) the trajectory of the shot on almost any rifle cartridge is not great.

I think sometimes it gets lost that there are people on this forum who just want to go and hunt with their rifle at close to moderate ranges where a lot of the minutiae we talk about is lost on. Not to say that person doesn't want to learn, but sometimes they just want fast, easy and assured.

 

[<*(((><]

By the way the Leupold VX3i are great scopes. And for the money they can be had for right now it is hard to pass on.

 

[Chuck R.]

The big question for the OP is what is the intended use for this rifle? Probably, should get this question out of the way first. So often with the wide array of types of shooters on this forum, there is personal views on matters. It's always good to understand the OP's question fully.

I don't use custom dials as I like to dial in a shot.

But there are LOTS of hunters bringing home game with them, that you can be sure of. There just isn't enough difference in trajectory for a vast number of hunters who hunt in the same area year in and year out. If a hunter is hunting in the same general location at hunting distances of under 400 yards every year within a few 1,000 feet of elevation difference, +/- 20 degrees in weather, and +/-20% humidity there just isn't enough difference in trajectory for it to not work out on big game at ethical distances. Now if you are a long range hunter shooting out past 700 yards on big game (what I consider a long shot, as there is always opportunity to get closer), then there is no way you should be using CDS dials.

It is up to the person ordering the CDS dials to find an average of all the atmospheric information for when they are hunting. Even if one takes the atmospheric to more of the extremes one is only talking about a 4-5" difference in drop at 500 yards with a 180gr 30-06 at 2,750fps. My hunting environment with a single rifle doesn't change enough to worry about that. And that's worst case scenario. If I do get into environmental changes it would be in the differences mentioned above in bold, where the drop is insignificant on big game under 500 yards.
​

There isn't one time that I've referenced barometric pressure or relative humidity in my shots on game. I do see what my load will do at elevation and temperature but that's about it.

This ^ sums it up pretty well.

For the majority of hunters the CDS and BDC systems work very well for the vast majority of shots taken. Which BTW, last time I reviewed any type of stats the average deer shot was under still 200 yards and 500 was actually on the far side.

Now somehow it's become vogue to play "deer sniper" complete with a Mil dot reticle, laser range finder, ballistic program and a Kestrel (got to keep up on those atmospheric changes cause anything else is just unethical). Even IF you're running a mil dot, unless you're running a new dope chart right before you squeeze off the shot, you're still going off outdated data.

Meanwhile your buck that was at 400 has now wandered off while you were calculating the data for where he was.

If you want a custom dial, just be smart about it and have it made using the average conditions in which you hunt with your favorite load.

 

[Musicianized]

Primarily hunting.. I've never shot a deer past 120yds but I now have access to 2 farms where I have much farther shots.. 400 easy.

Inalso.plan on target shooting at paper out to 300-400 and steel out to 700 or so on a range at my friends. Nothing serious, just for fun. I'm not tryi g to me a military sharp shooter or a deer sniper. But I do want to find the best hunting load that my rifle shoots well and be able to set the scope to 400 and be in the kill zone on a deer, or be able to clang a steel plate...

 

[<*(((><]

400 yard shots I wouldn't use MPBR then. I would be dialing in, personally. A CDS system should work fine for you. If you get more serious, you can always put the standard turret back on in a minute or so and go to town dialing with MOA/Mil clicks.

What cartridge are you shooting?

Just to give you some information the CDS dial is only changing what is written on the turret nothing more. Instead of MOA/Mil lines you have yardages based on your given information on your load out of your rifle.

 

[Musicianized]

400 yard shots I wouldn't use MPBR then. I would be dialing in, personally. A CDS system should work fine for you. If you get more serious, you can always put the standard turret back on in a minute or so and go to town dialing with MOA/Mil clicks.

What cartridge are you shooting?

Just to give you some information the CDS dial is only changing what is written on the turret nothing more. Instead of MOA/Mil lines you have yardages based on your given information on your load out of your rifle.

6.5 Creedmoor, probably 143 grain Noslers, I'm not sure yet, it depends on what she likes to shoot.

Even if the turret markings are diffferent each click is still going to be 1/4" moa so adjusting a few clicks to get on target with a slightly different load isn't a big deal.

 

[<*(((><]

6.5 Creedmoor, probably 143 grain Noslers, I'm not sure yet, it depends on what she likes to shoot.

Even if the turret markings are diffferent each click is still going to be 1/4" moa so adjusting a few clicks to get on target with a slightly different load isn't a big deal.

Even if you have two different loads (hunting and target, or whatnot), I don't think (I've never bought one) the CDS turrets to buy are that expensive (first one is free).

 

[Walkalong]

Man some of you guys are so serious.

I'm just killing deer... In Michigan, mostly in the same county, on the same hill

Yep.

BDC type reticles can work for much of hunting and casual shooting, no doubt, but when you get way out there (What's way out there?), then you need more precision.

As someone who has recently discovered (early last year) first focal plane scopes where we dial the elevation in, I get it when those folks blankly say......BDC bad, FFP good. I really do.

I own a couple of BDC type scopes, and a really nice second focal plane Minox with MOA reticle. It's hard to go back.

 

[<*(((><]

Yep.

BDC type reticles can work for much of hunting and casual shooting, no doubt, but when you get way out there (What's way out there?), then you need more precision.

As someone who has recently discovered (early last year) first focal plane scopes where we dial the elevation in, I get it when those folks blankly say......BDC bad, FFP good. I really do.

I own a couple of BDC type scopes, and a really nice second focal plane Minox with MOA reticle. It's hard to go back.

I agree on the BDC reticles they have their issues (not being accurate unless at full power or unless a FFP scope), but with the CDS system as the OP was asking about reticle subtension issues are non-existent whether FFP or SFP.

But yes, in my mind if I'm going to utilize a BDC reticle, you bet I'm going to want the scope to be FFP although I don't use BDC reticles very much anyways. Too much of a chance to forget it's not on max power on a SFP and try and utilize the BDC only to have a missed shot.

 

[Walkalong]

I did not realize there were some BDC type scopes in FFP.

I thought the debate was SFP BDC vs FFP milrad or MOA.

 

[<*(((><]

I did not realize there were some BDC type scopes in FFP.

I thought the debate was SFP BDC vs FFP milrad or MOA.

Most are SFP, but there are scopes with BDC and FFP. Meopta has a line of optics that has BDC in FFP for .308, 6.5CM.

 

[LoonWulf]

Lol I don't see how turning a dial to 700yds and being on target at 700yds is a gimmick?

For those who shoot one load, at one location, in one barometric pressure, at one temperature, in one humidity.... sure...

^+1

The best way (short of going out shooting) to see why it's not a perfect solution is to run a test load thru a program like strelok, then change just one variable.

Elevation change, air density, temperature effects on velocity, all those (and other variables) cant be accounted for with the yardage markers on a dial.

That said I like them and have one on my .375 Ruger, and bdc/grid sfp reticles on my other scopes. BUT I'm strictly a mid to long range plinker, missing a couple times dosent matter to me.

 

[Walkalong]

. Meopta has a line of optics that has BDC in FFP for .308, 6.5CM.

Interesting.

Meopta Optika6 5-30x56 ED Illuminated MRAD 34mm FFP

 

[cdb1]

That said, the CDS deal is a gimmick, not worth the time.

You are correct as usual.

 

[RainDodger]

I have a number of Leupold CDS scopes. All are on rifles in which I have settled on one standard load. Most are on tactical-type rifles. I rarely vary my shooting distances greatly, so in the normal scheme of things I don't have to use the CDS dial extensively. I view them as a quick way to be closer on target than having to think about how many clicks to move the elevation turret. In my cases, they are not spot-on, but they're close enough for gov't work. On a tactical rifle, it's good enough. On a bullseye rifle, it will never be good enough. When shooting different loads, it's "close".... Overall, I'd say the CDS dial is a bit of assistance when you need to be fairly quick on target.