limp wristing
- Thread starter guns'ahoy
- Start date
- Status
Real skinny on it is - basic Newton -
Gun goes backwards in recoil - for every action, opposit and equal reaction, bullet (shell) tries to stay at rest- object at rest tends to stay at rest.
In a semi auto, the end result is sometimes a misfeed. In a revolver the result is sometimes a bullet that jumps it's crimp and stays in place while the revolver moves backwards under recoil.
There's other factors involved also. Someone's sure to come by and add in/expound in greater detail.
Gun goes backwards in recoil - for every action, opposit and equal reaction, bullet (shell) tries to stay at rest- object at rest tends to stay at rest.
In a semi auto, the end result is sometimes a misfeed. In a revolver the result is sometimes a bullet that jumps it's crimp and stays in place while the revolver moves backwards under recoil.
There's other factors involved also. Someone's sure to come by and add in/expound in greater detail.
ARperson
Member
Keep in mind my explanation isn't going to be extremely scientific (i just got off the 10-6 shift), but it should be basic enough. (Assuming I'm as coherent as I think I am.)
When you pull the trigger and the slide moves rearward (caused by the Newtowian action=reaction mentioned aboved), most of the energy from the blast should be moving the slide rearward. A firm wrist allows this to happen by holding the frame still relative to the backward movement of the slide.
However, when the wrist is not firm, some of the energy that is supposed to be used to cycle the slide is also used in moving the frame back. So the slide doesn't move as far rearward relative to the frame (that's the important part) as it should. In some cases, this failure to cycle fully can result in misfeeds because the slide did not move rearward enough to "grab" the next round and slide it home.
It's basically an incomplete slide cycle.
That help any?
When you pull the trigger and the slide moves rearward (caused by the Newtowian action=reaction mentioned aboved), most of the energy from the blast should be moving the slide rearward. A firm wrist allows this to happen by holding the frame still relative to the backward movement of the slide.
However, when the wrist is not firm, some of the energy that is supposed to be used to cycle the slide is also used in moving the frame back. So the slide doesn't move as far rearward relative to the frame (that's the important part) as it should. In some cases, this failure to cycle fully can result in misfeeds because the slide did not move rearward enough to "grab" the next round and slide it home.
It's basically an incomplete slide cycle.
That help any?
RUT
Member
Yes, limp wristing is a particular problem amongst shooters in San Francisco, Fire Island, Key West, and Provincetown.
BluesBear
member
Say goodbye to this thread.
Stephen A. Camp
Moderator In Memoriam
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2002
- Messages
- 2,430
Hello. Let's stay on topic.
Best and Happy Thanksgiving.
Best and Happy Thanksgiving.
James Bondrock
Member
For self defense purposes, you do not want a pistol that is fussy about maintaining a perfect grip to ensure functioning. If, for instance, you have already been wounded, you will be lucky to hold the gun up at all, let alone maintain a firmly locked wrist.
Archie
Member
You can "tune" your pistol to function...
If a particular person has a problem with weak wristing, a lighter recoil spring will often cure the problem. However, if that pistol gets shot by someone with a "harder" grip, the excess pounding on the frame will cause premature wear or frame cracking.
Also, sometimes a lighter loaded round will not generate enough recoil. This is particularly true in target pistols.
It's not uncommon for match shooters to have two or three different weight springs for the same pistol; for different loads or conditions.
As Bondrock mentioned, you want a defense pistol to work without extra fussing, so (with the standard defense load) you want to find a spring that will work without special consideration.
If a particular person has a problem with weak wristing, a lighter recoil spring will often cure the problem. However, if that pistol gets shot by someone with a "harder" grip, the excess pounding on the frame will cause premature wear or frame cracking.
Also, sometimes a lighter loaded round will not generate enough recoil. This is particularly true in target pistols.
It's not uncommon for match shooters to have two or three different weight springs for the same pistol; for different loads or conditions.
As Bondrock mentioned, you want a defense pistol to work without extra fussing, so (with the standard defense load) you want to find a spring that will work without special consideration.
Zach S
Member
Which is why I limp wrist mine for a mag or two at every range session to make sure it'll function correctly.
My Colt with the stock spring (~16lb) was bad to hang up with a limp wrist, but never fails with an 18.5. That seems backwards to me, seems like the heavier spring would be more picky but it works.
BluesBear
member
That's because the momentum has alread been imparted to the slide by the firing of the cartridge.
Most limp wristing failures are failures to feed. The stronger recoil spring insures snappier feeding.
PT-Partners
Member
Here is a small example of the differences in shooters and the potential of "limp wristing" from very limited experience to long term shooters.
My wife is left handed and currently has a Sphinx DAO .380. The gun will not lock back on the last shot for her but does for me. My wife is one of those who only, for lack of better term, qualifies about twice a year and mostly just to remember how the gun works. After a box which is 5 mags for her she remembers to hold on to the gun. (Yes, we may be getting a revolver again)
That is how the control of the gun can be when the frame is not held firmly.
Another shooter I recently sold a Custom full house BHP to had FTF after FTF with the target grade ammo such as Magtech, (NOT magsafe) Winchester White box, Remington UMC and American Eagle. No FTF's with the premium grade such as Plus P Gold Dot, Standard Velocity Gold Dot, 115, 125, and 147, Standard Velocity Hydra Shot 124.
The shooter has been firing 1911s' for many years without any issues. The slide difference in the grip and also the .44 Mag and .357 revolvers for duty use.
We changed springs, mags, ammo, and tried whatever we could
I had no problems when firing it but he did and then he notice my grip was firmer then his.
Once we noticed the grip there was no FTF with the rest of the case of target grade ammo. And yes I got to shoot a bunch of his ammo up.
We guessed the shooter mentally allowed for the lighter recoil of the 9mm over the .45 or revolvers he was accustomed to. When remembered no FTF's and bunches of hits on the steel plates as fast as he could shoot and change mags.
I watched the change over from revolver to semi-auto for one police deptartment and that was one of the problems a few shooters had as a few of the less experienced shooters of the .357 on full house loads would let the gun roll in the hand and then the follow up shot. Those folks would get a higher percentage of FTF until used to the recoil style of the semi auto over that of a revolver. Grip angle had some influence also at least that is what some others mentioned.
This may seem ludicrous to many it can happen to the most experienced shooter. So as I posted a similar post on the 1911 forum when you get a gun and there is an issue the issue may not be the gun.
My wife is left handed and currently has a Sphinx DAO .380. The gun will not lock back on the last shot for her but does for me. My wife is one of those who only, for lack of better term, qualifies about twice a year and mostly just to remember how the gun works. After a box which is 5 mags for her she remembers to hold on to the gun. (Yes, we may be getting a revolver again)
That is how the control of the gun can be when the frame is not held firmly.
Another shooter I recently sold a Custom full house BHP to had FTF after FTF with the target grade ammo such as Magtech, (NOT magsafe) Winchester White box, Remington UMC and American Eagle. No FTF's with the premium grade such as Plus P Gold Dot, Standard Velocity Gold Dot, 115, 125, and 147, Standard Velocity Hydra Shot 124.
The shooter has been firing 1911s' for many years without any issues. The slide difference in the grip and also the .44 Mag and .357 revolvers for duty use.
We changed springs, mags, ammo, and tried whatever we could
I had no problems when firing it but he did and then he notice my grip was firmer then his.
Once we noticed the grip there was no FTF with the rest of the case of target grade ammo. And yes I got to shoot a bunch of his ammo up.
We guessed the shooter mentally allowed for the lighter recoil of the 9mm over the .45 or revolvers he was accustomed to. When remembered no FTF's and bunches of hits on the steel plates as fast as he could shoot and change mags.
I watched the change over from revolver to semi-auto for one police deptartment and that was one of the problems a few shooters had as a few of the less experienced shooters of the .357 on full house loads would let the gun roll in the hand and then the follow up shot. Those folks would get a higher percentage of FTF until used to the recoil style of the semi auto over that of a revolver. Grip angle had some influence also at least that is what some others mentioned.
This may seem ludicrous to many it can happen to the most experienced shooter. So as I posted a similar post on the 1911 forum when you get a gun and there is an issue the issue may not be the gun.
loveipos1234
Member
Limp Wristing seems more pronounced in the 4" and less barrels
yah, it's strange ... ive had feed problems with my friends sig (229 i believe) a couple of times. he never does, so im guessing im limp wristing it. but it makes me warry of buying a sig.
on the other hand ive shot xd's, glocks, HK's, berettas..ect all without any feed problems. i dunno, maybe it's just how the sig sets up in my hands.
- Status