load workups in the cold?

[Axis II]

Seeing how I am mainly a hunter I have been switching from non hodgdon extreme powders to all extreme powders for cold, hot, mild, etc. Wintertime it gets a little boring so I start reloading and on nice days I would shoot but I got to thinking I am going to try a few more powders, bullets and primers for rifle and handguns from 9mm-38-44mag-45-70-223rem and maybe more and test them on nice winter days. with these being extreme powders I shouldn't have any issues come spring/summer correct?

My plan is load up a lot during winter of know loads so I have spring/summer to fish and shoot and pretty much not have to worry about run home and load 100rds and run to the range.

 

[BigBore44]

Your variances will be next to nothing. Not even enough for a chronograph to predictably discern between your normal velocities already. Maybe if you went shooting on a 100 degree day and left your cartridges sitting on your dash minutes before shooting, you might. Even then, it’s negligible.

 

[Axis II]

Your variances will be next to nothing. Not even enough for a chronograph to predictably discern between your normal velocities already. Maybe if you went shooting on a 100 degree day and left your cartridges sitting on your dash minutes before shooting, you might. Even then, it’s negligible.

thanks. I was concerned the extreme powders thing maybe a gimmick to make a few more $. I don't hot rod anything but my woodchuck loads to shoot a little flatter and even that's not even max. target loads tend to fall close to min/medium.

 

[BigBore44]

Nope. No gimmick. I mean, I’m not a chemist. But based off what I’ve seen in my own “tests” and what others who have forgotten more than I will ever learn say, it’s legit. I still run MANY old school powders from Western, IMR, and Alliant. But Hogdon Extreme series is what fills most of my shelf. Not indicative of my supply. I just took the spare H-Extreme stuff out of my closet. I needed a break from homework.

 

[jmr40]

Your variances will be next to nothing. Not even enough for a chronograph to predictably discern between your normal velocities already.

I can't say about handgun rounds, but with common rifle rounds it does make a difference, and enough to cause problems.

Most typical powders will see 2-3 fps change in velocity for each 1 degree temperature changes. The extreme powders normally see less than 1/2 fps for each 1 degree temperature changes. If you chronograph a load at +20 and then do it again at +80 that is only a 60 degree temperature change, but you could see 120-180 fps more speed with many powders. That is enough to get you into trouble if you are working close to max loads. With the extreme powders you'd see less than 30 fps.

Most people concern themselves with loads being slower than expected in extreme cold. And for many of us that is a more likely scenario. But for someone like me living in the south where summer temps can be 110 or more during August and in single digits in January I have to consider both ends of the spectrum.

I use some regular powder, as well as the extreme powders. If I were getting much better results with regular powders I'd use them and just find another way to deal with velocity changes. But in my experience the extreme powders I use give equal accuracy and speeds. So when ever possible I prefer to use them.

 

[hdwhit]

Most typical powders will see 2-3 fps change in velocity for each 1 degree temperature changes.

I've loaded 30 Carbine using IMR-4227, Hercules 2400, and Winchester 680. I've loaded 223 Remington usiong IMR-4198, IMR-3031 and Winchester 748. I have shot them at ambient temperatures ranging from 0 degrees (F) to over 100 degrees and while I have noticed slight increases (i.e. 20-30 fps) in mean velocity as the ambient temperature warmed up, I have not experienced anything like 2-3 fps per degree. Not saying it couldn't happen, it is just outside of my experience.

 

[Walkalong]

with these being extreme powders I shouldn't have any issues come spring/summer correct?

Don't bet on it, if anywhere near max re-test in hot weather to make sure there is no pressure problem.

 

[BigBore44]

“I was concerned the extreme powders thing maybe a gimmick to make a few more $. I don't hot rod anything but my woodchuck loads to shoot a little flatter and even that's not even max. target loads tend to fall close to min/medium.”

That statement says he’s in 0 danger. Remember powders are tested at a range of temps. And some (H-Extreme) are tested at a higher variance. PRB did a test with several powders. Tested at 25deg to 140deg. Here are the loads and the results....

But as always, do the smart thing and go ahead and check for signs of pressure. But if there was any danger, factory ammo would have more warning labels than Area 51.

 

[Axis II]

Nope. No gimmick. I mean, I’m not a chemist. But based off what I’ve seen in my own “tests” and what others who have forgotten more than I will ever learn say, it’s legit. I still run MANY old school powders from Western, IMR, and Alliant. But Hogdon Extreme series is what fills most of my shelf. Not indicative of my supply. I just took the spare H-Extreme stuff out of my closet. I needed a break from homework.

why the black X on the bottles? just curious.

 

[Axis II]

Don't bet on it, if anywhere near max re-test in hot weather to make sure there is no pressure problem.

Right now my good paper killing load is about 23gr of benchmark so i think i should be okay. just wanted to try some h322, varget, etc but deer hunting it getting in the way off my shooting/reloading time.

 

[BigBore44]

why the black X on the bottles? just curious.

I was working up some loads for a friend of a friend for his AR-10. He gave me 6lbs of powder to use. The X distinguished my powder from his. I worked up a couple hundred rounds and rather than pay me (he insisted) the guy said I could just have the powder as a trade. Said they were the most accurate rounds he’d ever shot from his gun. For a stock AR, I guess they were pretty decent. Around 1.5”.

 

[Axis II]

I was working up some loads for a friend of a friend for his AR-10. He gave me 6lbs of powder to use. The X distinguished my powder from his. I worked up a couple hundred rounds and rather than pay me (he insisted) the guy said I could just have the powder as a trade. Said they were the most accurate rounds he’d ever shot from his gun. For a stock AR, I guess they were pretty decent. Around 1.5”.

Ever used varget in 223rem, 50-68gr bullets? Thinking that will be my next pound. Just trying to compile a notebook with different stuff for when i cant find the usual and maybe tighten groups a bit.

 

[BigBore44]

Varget is a very versatile powder. From 223-45/70. But no. I don’t reload 223 yet. I don’t shoot much 223 (only for yotes) and got a great deal on Hornady 50ct for 55gr psp’s a couple years ago. I bought 400rounds. I believe I payed $15/box. But I have saved all my brass in case I ever run out and want to load. And I will start with Varget.

 

[spitballer]

I always thought maybe the temp-related stuff was useful for autoloaders with a hot chamber - I've never seen much difference in my bolt rifle.

 

[fallout mike]

I'm with jmr. With regular powders in rifles we've seen HUGE discrepancies in groups with meticulous handloaded rounds when shot in winter months that were loaded in summer months.

 

[fallout mike]

I was going to post the average of 3fps per 1 degree change in weather tidbit but he beat me to it .

 

[Bbear]

I've had some of the Alliant R-series powder show pretty wide swings from cold (sub-freezing) to hot (100+ f) that caused me to try something different. Opening weekend is this Saturday and temps are suppose to be in the 80's to near 90. Those loads wouldn't work too well in those temps.

Another thing on the temp stability is what cartridge it is being used in. RL-19 locked up my 25-06 but a friend uses it in his 300 WM and doesn't have near the problem that I saw. His summer-time rounds are just 'hotter'. Some swipe marks and cratered primers. (personally, I wouldn't shoot that load and have told him so, but, 'he knows')

 

[Tinybob]

Ever used varget in 223rem, 50-68gr bullets? Thinking that will be my next pound. Just trying to compile a notebook with different stuff for when i cant find the usual and maybe tighten groups a bit.

I've used Varget for 223 for an AR with a 556 chamber and a Handirifle. AR will shoot 1.5 to 2" at 100yds with 55gr or 62gr FMJ. Handirifle shot sub MOA with 55gr to 70gr. Upper mid-range to upper range powder charge for both.

 

[LoonWulf]

You guys make me happy to live in hawaii, my temp swings are 60 degs at most
I do tend to run loads hot in my hunting guns, but my most common powders happen to be Retumbo, and H4350. With my normal temp swings from the high 60s to the low 90s and ive seen little change in velocity between those temperatures. Ive mostly kept track of my 7mag velocity it and with a 162Amax 74grns gives me 3000-3050 every time im out no mater the conditions.
Ive checked this with a both of my chronographs, as while its unusual, ive gone from 10K feet and mid 50s to 0ft and mid 90s in the same day.
Ive been shooting quite a bit of superformance, and within the "normal" swing of temperature i havent seen much change. I havent had a chance to shoot it in colder conditions, or in the really hot conditions yet tho.

 

[Blue68f100]

Ever used varget in 223rem, 50-68gr bullets? Thinking that will be my next pound. Just trying to compile a notebook with different stuff for when i cant find the usual and maybe tighten groups a bit.

I've used Varget with 65gr and 69gr Sierra Bullets in 223R, AR's. This was with a cheap 18" Wydle chamber, 1:8 twist barrel from Anderson. This barrel shot amazingly well with the heavy bullets and Varget, < 1moa with the Lapua brass. But with anything lighter 1.5-2.0 moa and larger can be expected. I eventually shot this barrel out trying to get Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT bullets to shoot 1 moa. I tried 7 different powders and about as many different bullets in the 52-60gr range. Nothing worked with this gun. I do have a 1:10 twist, min spec chamber, 24" bull barrel that loves the lighter bullets, but not Varget. My other 1:9 twist Krieger Barrel shoots everything from 52 gr - 65 gr moa or smaller. 69gr seams to be border line on this barrel. Be advised that Varget runs Hotter (temp) than other powders. It has a tendency to stick to my brass catchers.