Loading rifle powder in handgun cartridges

Status
Not open for further replies.

Apiidae

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
20
Location
British Columbia
This is more for curiosity, has anyone tried loading slower powders in their handgun cartridges that they shoot from rifles.
For example; the bullet weight, and diameter of a .357 mag and .308 win are similar.
The bbl length and action of a Ruger 77/357 and a Ruger Gunsite Scout are similar.
But there is no data, for instance, for Varget for the .357 mag.

Before anyone goes crazy with safety details, using fast burning powders in rifle calibers is crazy. "Don't try this at home."
 
Rifle powders are WAY TOO SLOW to be used in the limited case space of a handgun cartridge. You can't get enough rifle powder like Varget in the case to develop sufficient pressures to get the bullet to move.
 
The only overlap occurs with the magnum handgun powders: Win 296, H110, VV N110, Alliant 2400.

Most of these can be used to load some fast burning rifle calibers like .30carbine, .300Blk, .45-70, and a few others.

Basically, the slowest pistol powders will have some overlap with the fastest rifle powders.
 
I use rifle powders in some of my handguns, but they are chambered in .223, 7mm br and other rounds that have a lot more case volume than the 357.

I also use pistol powders in some of my rifle rounds like 458 socom uses "magnum" range pistol powders and the fairly fast trailboss for subsonic .308 rounds.
 
Cant really compare cartridges that way. Case volume and case to bore ratio on those cartridges are very different.

Slow burning slow slow slow for that small case volume. I'd imagine it would be a similar effect to using that surplus 50 bmg or 20mm powder in a "normal" rifle cartridge like a 308. You may not even get the bullet to get enough speed to make holes lol.

I would be cautious of ignition problems unless you make sure you get a good case fill. Mag primers, or preferably rifle primers I think would be worth a shot.

I think more than anything I would be afraid of bullets stuck in the bore. I have used the super slow surplus powder in my 308 for plinkers. 3/4 case full of 50 bmg powder got 1200 fps or something like that if I remember right.

Fast burning pistol powders do have their place in loading rifle cartridges, but it is not a beginners loading. A lot can go wrong in a hurry.

I think some research and reading could help you out more.
 
I think that a starting assumption that .357 Magnum and .308 Winchester cartridges and rifles are "similar" makes further discussion difficult. They are not similar in any meaningful way.

Powder suitability is based on bullet sectional density and chamber - barrel expansion ratio. Those are very different from a bottleneck rifle round to a straight pistol cartridge.
 
IMR4227 is about as close to a rifle powder that can be used in a handgun case and works very well in handgun caliber carbines and magnum revolvers with heavy bullets. Problem is, you can't get enough of it in a case to reach the same velocities as you get with W296/H110.
 
You can't get enough rifle powder like Varget in the case to develop sufficient pressures to get the bullet to move.

Good bit of hyperbole as a primer only will move a bullet into the rifling -- often far enough to cause a kaboom is the shooter fails to notice the lack of recoil and bullet when ejecting the "dud".

Slow vs. fast spans 10s of microseconds, things are very non-linear at these short timescales, be careful!
 
Before anyone goes crazy with safety details, using fast burning powders in rifle calibers is crazy. "Don't try this at home."
Apples to Oranges. Loading an '06 with a case full of Bullseye is a really BAD idea.

However, loading fast powder in rifles has been done and there is published data for it esp. for cast bullets. I would only suggest using the mfg data or mfgs' formula for that specific case, volume, and bullet.
 
"...of a .357 mag and .308 win are similar..." Um, no they aren't. And the two rifles are only similar by virtue of being bolt actions. None of that matters anyway.
Has to do with burn rates and case volume.
Please join us at www.canadiangunnutz.com.
 
Good bit of hyperbole as a primer only will move a bullet into the rifling -- often far enough to cause a kaboom is the shooter fails to notice the lack of recoil and bullet when ejecting the "dud".

Slow vs. fast spans 10s of microseconds, things are very non-linear at these short timescales, be careful!
I was trying to make a point an obviously new reloader would pay attention to. It was a lot easier than going into squibs and all the rest and better than just saying don't do it...
 
Just for grins, I "loaded" a case full of IMR4895 behind a 158gr JHP in a 357Mag.
Along with a 700fps bullet, 80% of the powder left the 5" barrel un-burned.

Hardly "kaboom" material ;),
but definitely a waste :rolleyes:.



* QuickLoad/Friction-"On"
 
Before anyone goes crazy with safety details, using fast burning powders in rifle calibers is crazy.

The irony is that you can safely use pistol powders in rifle cases and people have been doing it successfully for decades. But the opposite is not true. I myself have used 2400 and green dot for 223 and 303 British with not problem. American Select, Blue Dot and Unique are other good choices.
 
It can be done. DuPont/IMR, in their old printed freebie paperback loading handouts used to show rifle powder data in some handgun cartridges.

I have a few days off and I'll try to remember to load and chronograph some just for gits and shiggles.

35W
 
Just for grins, I "loaded" a case full of IMR4895 behind a 158gr JHP in a 357Mag.
Along with a 700fps bullet, 80% of the powder left the 5" barrel un-burned.

Hardly "kaboom" material ;),
but definitely a waste :rolleyes:.



* QuickLoad/Friction-"On"
Did you really get 700 fps from IMR4859? That's surprising... Thanks for the info.
 
Loaded it tonite -- but it's starting to rain. :cuss:
mañana then....

GP-100/5"
Starline 357 case
Montanna Bullet Works/160gr LFNGC BHN:22 (Talk about overkill...)
IMR4895/16.8gr (weighed/full case/no compression)
CCI-550Mag primers/1.613" OAL

iz2b85.jpg

We'll see.... ;)

.
 
Last edited:
Okaaaaay.....

1950-2000 EDT (sunset @ 2036 -- Ya gotta love Oehlers)

Shot
1. No reading (just did a hole appear in the target at 7 yards?) - "yes"

Move back to 25:
2. 754
3. 740
4. 761
5. 763
Ave:754.5 ± 10
(Gotta love QuickLoad)

- Totally normal feel of a 38 Special wadcutter
- NO muzzle flash that I picked up at all (and it was dusk)
- Twelve individual (I counted`em) pristine grains of powder left in barrel (which simply blew out w/ a breath)
- Completely clean barrel
- 2" group at 25yds




(Gee, just think how well it would do w/ Hodgdon 50BMG....) :neener:

.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top