Loaning handgun to out-of-state brother

[ssr]

Can't he ship it back to himself, if it stays his property? If it becomes the property of the brother, then no, it has to be then transferred back. But if it stays his property, just in his brothers possession temporarily, can't he just ship his property back to himself?

That's what gunsmiths and manufacturers do. They can ship directly back to the owner, without FFLs, after gunsmithing or warranty work.

 

[Car Knocker]

But it was legally transferred to his brother in another state. Legal possession, not ownership, lies with the brother. To get it back across state lines an FFL has to be involved for the transfer back to the owner. Otherwise, the brother has violated the following section of code:

18 USC 922
(a) It shall be unlawful—
...
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;

By the time all the shipping and transfer fees accrue, not to mention the agravation, it may well be cheaper to lend the brother the money to buy a similar gun. When the brother is able to afford the gun he really wants, just sell the temporary gun and give the money back to the lender. The lender would then be ahead of the game.

 

[DennisTheMenace]

Thank you all

The option to "loan" for "temporary use for lawful sporting purposes" was the provision I found on the BATF web site. I tend to agree with everyone who has posted that it's a legal gray area. I don't think a loan of several months complies with the spirit of the regulation, even if the regulation doesn't comply with the Bill of Rights.

I have to admit the "loan him the money" to buy it suggestion has appeal, but isn't an option in this case.

My brother left a voicemail that he'd spoken to an FFL down there (in Orlando), the FFL was happy to arrange for the transfer... if I had an FFL here ship it to him! I don't think there is a legal requirement for it to be shipped FROM an FFL, so I think he's also trying to keep out of any gray area in the law. I can't blame him for that. If I take that route I'll try to find an FFL that will allow me to ship it directly to him, there will be too many people involved as it is without adding an FFL at the 'sending' end.

I appreciate everyone's input regarding my question. I wonder if calling the BATF for their take on the law would get me anywhere? The problem with that is that I don't know if I could trust the answer. It's like calling the IRS for tax advice, if their advice is flawed I'm still the one who gets in trouble.

Dennis

 

[Andras]

It doesn't have to be shipped from an FFL to an FFL, just that a FFL has to handle the transfer on his end. My great uncle shipped his pistol to my FFL himself.

(I could be wrong, but that's my experience)

 

[Car Knocker]

More and more FFLs are refusing to accept a firearm shipment unless it comes from another FFL.

 

[22-rimfire]

"In his post the guy said specifically that he wants to stay legal, yet you are recommending that both he and his brother commit a federal felony."

I don't think you are correct, by the way. This is why giving "legal advice" is not a very good idea on a forum. I would do what makes sense, and if it is an immediate family member... (just add what you are comfortable with)

 

[Big Gay Al]

I just sold a pistol to a guy in another state, through gunbroker.com. His FFL of choice faxed me a copy of his license, and I packed the pistol up, took it down to FedEx, and shipped it out. No problemo.