Long range competitive reloading

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KYregular

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I just watched a video by James Yeager who claims that maybe 1/10th of one percent of the top precision reloaders load their own ammo, and most use factory. I know that I load my own and every competitive shooter I know does. Is there anyone out there who shoots competitively who uses factory ammo?
 
Do they even sell most of the stuff that competitors use. Never have I ever seen dasher ammunition at any store. I also havent seen 30 br on the shelf. The paradigm may be changing with the 6.5 creedmore, but I see a lot of holes in that claim.
 
I have no idea, but I do know both Federal factory ammo with Berger 105 Hybrids and Hornady factory ammo with 108 gr ELDs both had ES numbers near 50 in my rifle, which is bad. My first reloads more that cut that in half, and that is before any serious tweaking.
 
Yeager is bad enough when he's talking about handguns or "tactical" rifles. Now he's holding forth on long-range precision competition? What's next, medical advice? His thoughts on the flight control systems of aircraft? How to solve the containment problems of fusion reactors?

I wouldn't take advice from that guy on how to make macaroni and cheese even if he was reading directly from the back of the blue box.
 
Could you post the video link? He’s certainly incorrect in saying only 0.1% of precision rifle shooters reload.

I don’t think it’s accurate to say it’s transposed, as I would guess 3-4, but not more than 10 out of 80-120 shooters at any given PRS match are shooting factory ammo. And “factory” might even be a stretch to describe some of the ammo used.
 
Can you post a link or at least the title of the Yeager video where you said he makes that claim?
 
Yeah, he says not to reload, and then says, “there’s an exception to every rule, and like the top 1/10th of 1 percent, like precision shooters, have to load.” He chases that with “but 99% of precision shooters don’t have to load.”

Personally, I assume he meant to say “99% of shooters don’t have to load,” and that pesky “precision” was simply a proximity slip.

He’s exaggerating for emphasis either way, but the first statement he makes seems to actually a concession that precision shooters are the 1/10th of 1% of shooters, which do have to reload, and just had a slip of the tongue to say 99% of PRECISION shooters don’t have to load.

But there’s no math or research behind anything he’s saying, no data cataloging of malfunctions from even his own classes, let alone an industry wide record. So taking anything he’s saying too literally is ill-advised.

He’s an instructor which has fallen victim to his own paradigm. Too much time instructing outside of the context of any other firearms applications - and he’s generally the type who’s happy to say stupid **** anyway, since it keeps him front of mind for discussion groups like this.
 
Yeah, he says not to reload, and then says, “there’s an exception to every rule, and like the top 1/10th of 1 percent, like precision shooters, have to load.” He chases that with “but 99% of precision shooters don’t have to load.”

Personally, I assume he meant to say “99% of shooters don’t have to load,” and that pesky “precision” was simply a proximity slip.

He’s exaggerating for emphasis either way, but the first statement he makes seems to actually a concession that precision shooters are the 1/10th of 1% of shooters, which do have to reload, and just had a slip of the tongue to say 99% of PRECISION shooters don’t have to load.

But there’s no math or research behind anything he’s saying, no data cataloging of malfunctions from even his own classes, let alone an industry wide record. So taking anything he’s saying too literally is ill-advised.

He’s an instructor which has fallen victim to his own paradigm. Too much time instructing outside of the context of any other firearms applications - and he’s generally the type who’s happy to say stupid **** anyway, since it keeps him front of mind for discussion groups like this.

Yep, i agree with him on some stuff, but he's an instructor who thinks that nobody is capable of doing anything on their own without instruction. You have to take a class for everything, or it won't work. Nothing wrong with taking a class and getting training, been there done that.
 
I think context matters, and he was talking about reloads during a training class. Now dont think I'm defending this clown, but what he was trying to say makes sense. His execution needs a lot of help.
 
Is there anyone out there who shoots competitively who uses factory ammo?

Yes. About half of the IPSC / 3-gun / IDPA shooters that I know and compete with buy their ammo. You'll find that many, if not most of the top action shooters who are sponsored also use mass produced ammo. At the USPSA-style rifle matches that I shoot, judging by the ammo boxes in the trash barrels, I'd say that only about 10 percent of us reload.

Those of you who are bent out of shape by Yeager in this thread simply don't understand the context of this video. He's not a benchrest or precision rifle shooter. This guy teaches classes called Fighting Pistol and Fighting Rifle, among similar others. Walmart ammo is perfectly adequate for his application and for the students in his classes.

Of course, those of us who shoot longer distances, myself included, do have to reload in order to get maximum performance and accuracy at distances beyond 1,000. We are however, a teeny-tiny minority of shooters as a whole, which is the point Yeager was making with that statement. His "1/10th of 1 percent" might actually be overstating our numbers!

If you actually watch the video, which is called "Why guns malfunction", and consider the context, you'll probably understand what Yeager meant by that statement.

And frankly, the number of people here who are triggered by the mere mention of James Yeager, is mystifying. And hilarious.
 
Do they even sell most of the stuff that competitors use. Never have I ever seen dasher ammunition at any store. I also havent seen 30 br on the shelf. The paradigm may be changing with the 6.5 creedmore, but I see a lot of holes in that claim.

Even if you do find 6 PPC factory ammunition it won’t fit in the .262ND chambers in a lot of benchrest rifles.

Yes. About half of the IPSC / 3-gun / IDPA shooters that I know and compete with buy their ammo.

I wouldn’t call any of those precision competitions and most 3 gun match shots are not at ranges I would consider “long” and the vast majority of the IDPA and USPSA shots I have fired were inside 25 yards, hundreds of matches I have shot never had any targets that far, much less further away. Most of the folks I know that reload for them reload for the “feel” of the round to achieve faster splits, not ultimate accuracy.
 
Those of you who are bent out of shape by Yeager in this thread simply don't understand the context of this video. He's not a benchrest or precision rifle shooter.

That’s exactly why we’re “bent out of shape.” Dude has no clue what he’s talking about, but he’s talking about it, nonetheless.

I speak in the same broken manner he does - mind outrunning my mouth most of the time, using a lot of broken phrases and a million commas, so it’s easier for me to hear what he intended to say, such it’s easier for me to ignore the slip of the tongue in the follow up statement where he says “99% of precision shooters don’t need to load.” I do believe he was meaning to say, “99% of shooters don’t need to reload,” but had a proximity slip and dropped an unintended “precision” in that statement. Evidenced by the fact it contradicts his previous statement, mere seconds before.
 
When it comes to LONG range (1k yards) competitive shooting I can assure you that the Benchrest crowd I’m familiar with is a very small number of people.
IF one actually wants to compete rather than plink or give it a try, I cannot think of one serious competitor that uses box ammunition.
J
 
I do tend to agree, however, that there’s sort of a common bell curve for action competition shooters likelihood of reloading vs. volume of fire (or ranking level). Before I started in action shooting, I had gear to reload for my 3 Gun and CAS/SASS cartridges, but rarely did load them. When I started, my volume went up and it made financial sense to reload. Eventually, the volume increased enough that reloading no longer made sense, in terms of time commitment, so I went back to factory loads, ordered in bulk. That seemed to be the common practice for most elite guys shooting that high of volume (not that I was ever elite in action shooting). In precision rifle competition, there ARE a surprising number of top guys using factory or factory custom ammunition, but it’s still a remarkably low number. Even a few guys each year who make the Finale are shooting factory ammo (reportedly), and there are a few boutique outfits making custom ammo for precision shooters with specified components and dimensions. Far more newbies are shooting factory ammo than elite guys, and the common mass of us are shooting reloads - As I mentioned above, out of 80-120 shooters at a given match, I’d bet 3-5 guys, but less than 10 are shooting factory ammo. I don’t recall ever seeing a benchrest shooter with factory ammo, at least not outside of glassed gas gun or hunter classes where a lot of folks were just there to do something on a Saturday and “run what ya brung.”

I also agree, the “1/10th of 1%” could very well be accurate regarding the relative volume of long range and precision shooters. Competitive shooters are a very, very small minority among all shooters and firearms owners. If someone told me 25% of owners were also competitors, I’d know it to be false. If someone said 1%, I’d expect it’s within a reasonable margin of error. Among competitors, precision games are much, much smaller than action games. I’d easily believe there are 10 action pistol, 3 gun, sporting clays, and cowboy action shooters for every benchrest, F-class, or precision rifle shooter out there.

Alas, as interesting as that particular stat might be, we’re putting too much emphasis on a relative fool’s statements. He contradicts himself twice in a matter of seconds, first by saying 1/10th of 1% need to load, followed by 99% don’t, instead of 99.9%, and he acknowledges precision shooters as the 1/10th of 1% who do need to load, then accidentally says 99% of precision shooters don’t need to load, literally in the next breath. He was dropping word vomit in an attempt to cover his ass about a blanket statement he made, while focused on a different statement, and he speaks in broken English, with little attempt of accountability for what he says. Much ado about nothin’, and we’re giving him far more attention than he deserves.
 
When I started, my volume went up and it made financial sense to reload. Eventually, the volume increased enough that reloading no longer made sense, in terms of time commitment, so I went back to factory loads, ordered in bulk. That seemed to be the common practice for most elite guys shooting that high of volume (not that I was ever elite in action shooting).

These days, a lot of those folks end up getting an Mark 7 autodrive on their 650 or 1050 or whatever. At super high volumes, that becomes a very attractive option.
 
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