Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

[Walkalong]

A note about the Hornady 6 Creed brass. The Lapua 6 BR brass I used to form 6 Dasher had less than .001 (About .0007) spread in neck thickness, while the Hornady 6 Creed brass has over .001 spread. Using a bushing die worked great with the Dasher and neck tension was very consistent. When I loaded those seven rounds of 6 Creed two of them had very tight neck tension while the others were what I expected after loaded the first three cases. Round #1 of the StaBall 6.5 and round #1 of the N-160. You'll notice the high neck tension round # 1 StaBall 6.5 43.3 Gr round was faster than the much lighter neck tension round # 2 43.6 Gr round. And the N-160 round #1 40.0 Gr was slightly faster than the much lighter neck tension 40.3 round # 2.

I have ordered the Sinclair Gen II Expander Die body and a TIN coated expander mandrel to use after the bushing die. I'll see how that goes. I would rather buy better brass than neck turn the 300 new Hornady 6 Creed cases I have. I am going to play with things some more.

 

[Walkalong]

The cause of the tight neck tension in some of the cases is a restriction at the bottom of the neck, the same place doughnuts show up, but this is factory fresh once fired never neck turned brass. Not a doughnut, at least not yet, it's about .001 to .0015. Very disappointing. Thinking of reaming now. I have a .242 & .243 reamer for the Wilson trimmer. It's how I dealt with doughnuts in 6 PPC cases.

 

[MarshallDodge]

You are encountering donuts in brand new Hornady 6CM brass?

 

[Walkalong]

Once fired factory Hornady 108 Gr ELD Match ammo. Not a bad doughnut like we can see with neck turned brass, but a restriction just the same. Not very encouraging..

I do have 300 brand new Hornady 6 Creed cases, but haven't even opened the packaging.

 

[Walkalong]

I just popped one of the new cases out of one of the 100 count bags. A .240 pin gauge is a tight slip fit, but the neck is the same ID all the way through.

 

[Walkalong]

Well, the .241 expander helped neck tension be more consistent, but it still wasn't as consistent as it could and should be. Much better though. My next experiment will be with new cases.

41.0 Grs of N-160 and 105 Berger Hybrids.
1st Shot 2917
2nd Shot 2943
3rd Shot 2911
4th Shot 2943
5th Shot 2943

HI 2943
LO 2911
AVG 2931
ES 32
SD 16

Wrestled with different rear bag today (Why did I change? *Sigh*) Shot a decent group (about .460) except for the diagonal I induced.

41.0 Grs of N-160 and 107 SMKs.
1st Shot 2943
2nd Shot 2898
3rd Shot 2911
4th Shot 2911
5th Shot 2917

HI 2943
LO 2898
AVG 2916
ES 45
SD 16

One low FPS round kept the numbers poor. Shot a round group right at .530.

Zero signs of pressure with any of these, including the two fouling rounds before shooting the 5 shot sets.
The foulers were 108 gr ELDs over 43.0 Grs of StaBall 6.5 for 3009 & 2969 FPS.

I'm going to run the Bergers over 41.0, 41.1, 41.2, 41.3, 41.4 & 41.5 Grs N-160

May run the ELDs over some StaBall in the neighborhood of 43.0, 43.1, 43.2, 43.3, 43.4, 43.5

I did remember to take a pic of the rifle this time. I am going to mount an Atlas directly to the spigot and that will lower the rifle which will help set more solid on a rear bag like the Pint Sized Game Changer I should have been using.

 

[taliv]

Dang nice rifle.

 

[Nature Boy]

Dang nice rifle.

I second that

 

[Walkalong]

Dang nice rifle.

I like it, and it's a good value as well IMHO. A fellow could do a lot worse.

It's trying to shoot, I just need to get something worked up. I have 22 rounds down the pipe now (3 and clean, 7 and clean, 12 more rounds today), ready for some more serious testing.

Midway USA put the Magneto Speed V3 on sale $40 off (Enough to cover shipping, tax, & NRA roundup, so I ordered one a couple of days ago, Merry Christmas to me.

Further testing will be done with it.

 

[Walkalong]

Oh, and I forgot to bring a mag and had to single feed with no mag. Great for group shooting.

 

[z7]

Oh, and I forgot to bring a mag and had to single feed with no mag. Great for group shooting.

I have don‘me that a few times, once to a PRS stage, one of those “put your ammo on the table and run back and forth” stages, I get to the gun for the first shot and realized I didn’t have a mag

 

[Walkalong]

I loaded 2 each of 41.0, 41.2, 41.3, 41.4, & 41.5 Grs of N-160 with Berger 105 Hybrids.

I also loaded 1 each of 43.0, 43.1, 43.2, 43.3, 43.4, & 43.5 Grs of StaBall 6.5 with 108 Gr ELDs.

A adjusted the .268 Wilson bushing so it doesn't size quite all the way down, leaving the donuts out of the equation, I did 6 like that, then 6 like that and then expanded the necks with the TIN coated .241 turning mandrel. That was the most uniform seating, but still not great and still tighter than I want. I have a TIN coated .242 expander mandrel on the way. I may also just try a larger bushing, but because of the neck thickness variation, I think that will still give erratic neck tension.

The MagnetoSpeed should be delivered tomorrow, so all I need is some decent weather soon.

 

[Walkalong]

Finally had some decent weather (no rain) and temps hit the low 60s, so I got out and shot the test loads.

Loads # 8 & # 9. (Really two six round strings - 41.0 to 41.5 Grs N-160), only difference being # 9 has about .001 less neck tension.

# 8 across the top & # 9 across the bottom. 41.0 to 41.5 each - six shots left to right


Load # 8
2906
2938
2928
2931
2930
2931

Load # 9
2929
2929
2922
2953 - ?
2929
2940

Load # 10. Again, a six shot string - 43.0 to 43.5 Grs StaBall 6.5 & 108 Gr ELDs

Didn't have another BR type target so I used one I made for close pistol use. The reticle blotted out to much of it, got me on shot #2 I think.

43.0 to 43.5 six shots left to right


Load # 10
3007
3007
2992
2993
3019
3026


Primers look good, lots of round left on the edges, no signs or pressure on the case heads. I need to re-test in the heat.




Now to pick a charge weight with both bullet/powder combos and shoot a couple of groups.

 

[Walkalong]

The MagnetoSpeed was easy to set up and use, I like it.

 

[Walkalong]

I sized & expanded ten more once fired (Factory ammo) 6 Creed cases, tumbled them, trimmed them to 1.910 on my old Wilson trimmer (Some of the brass from the once fired Hornady factory ammo were as long as 1.922), deburred/chamfered, tumbled, brushed necks inside (After the pic), and primed. I'm going to load five in steps of .2 with StaBall 6.5 (43.0, 43.2, 43.4, 43.6, & 43.8) to get some velocities, and five with the same charge of 41.3 Grs of N-160 to shoot a group. All with Berger 105 Hybrids.

I need to load them, no hurry though, we have rain in the forecast for many days.

 

[taliv]

So have you done enough to have an initial idea on whether staball is going to group (given a range of weights from a progressive) and be reasonable velocity?

 

[Walkalong]

It looks like it is going to give good velocity. If I overlay those shots with it and the ELDs using six different charge weights, toss out #2, it wouldn't be a bad group, not great, but it was 6 different charge weights.

Need more data though.

 

[NSDQ]

I set up a Thompson Center LRR in 243 Win for my wife.
Less than a grand fo r the rifle. I put a decent scope on it. Vortex Viper PST 6x24x50 and a decent bipod. Once I figured out the loads it liked I will ring a 10 in plate at a thousand 8/10 times.
ignore my disaster of a workbench

 

[Walkalong]

Nice.

 

[Walkalong]

After the weather moved through yesterday (Pretty bad) I woke up to a very nice morning, rain is coming, but I decided to take advantage of the break, hope the hospital didn't break anything for awhile, and load up/go shoot those ten cases.

It was calm but heavy air while I shot the group with 41.3 Grs N-160 and the Berger 105 Hybrids, and for the first three shots of the StaBall 6.5 and the Bergers. Then the wind picked up in my face quartering to the left. I did not move my point of aim and it showed on target. Looks like I need to try 43.6 to 44.4

Primers look fine, although I have to try any of these loads in the heat, since we shoot a lot more in heat than anything else down here.

41.3 Grs N-160. Berger 105 Hybrid. Federal 210M. MPA CRR 6 Creed

I used the .001 less neck tension again as in Load # 9, and again it had one high number (Same number too), so I need to use the neck tension from Load # 8 (See post #913). So I need a .240 expander.



43.0 to 43.8 Grs StaBall 6.5. Berger 105 Hybrid. Federal 210M. MPA CRR 6 Creed







The N1-60 shot well enough to use, sloppy left to right, but very good vertically, SD of 11.7. It will do, but could be better.

With the StaBall I need to go up some more. Maybe run 43.6 to 44.4.

Hodgdon online data goes up to 43.7 with a Hornady 105 for 3156 FPS in a 24" barrel. Mine is 26".

I emailed MPA for the twist rate of my barrel. Hodgdon's was a 1 in 8.

 

[Walkalong]

I shot two warm up rounds and then shot the 5 StaBall 6.5 rounds with the Berger 105 Hybrids .010 to .015 off the lands. 51.0 Degree 30.12 inHG 81% RH.

43.6 Grs = 3045 FPS
43.8 Grs = 3035 FPS
44.0 Grs = 3073 FPS
44.2 Grs = 3071 FPS
44.4 Grs = 3117 FPS

Primers and case heads still look real good. I did not shoot on target, just set up and got velocities. The full size pics of the primers are easier to see detail on. I have also looked at the actual cases under magnification.

Edit: Added a pic I forgot.

 

[Picher]

Lately, I'm not into rifles that look like they should come with wheels and a trailer hitch, but whatever turns you on, go for it.

 

[Walkalong]

Well thanks, but it fits in the back seat.

 

[Walkalong]

I loaded up 17 rounds with Berger 105 Hybrids, 44.1 Grs of StaBall 6.5, & Fed 210M primers. Two to warm up the barrel, 5 hand weighed to shoot a group and get numbers, 5 more hand weighed to save and shoot in the heat later to compare to the first 5. And then 5 thrown charges using the BR-30.

The GemPro 250 reads to the nearest .02 and all my hand weighed charges were 44.1 or 44.12.

I threw a bunch of charges with the BR-30 and it mirrored my last test, StaBall did +/- .12 Grs. Caveat...... I am not just banging away on the LNL, I am running the cases through smoothly and bumping the lever at the bottom of the stroke gently and consistently. I have my BR-30 set up to drop automatically on my LNL with my home made set up.

I worked with the measure trying to find a setting that would average 44.1. I used 54.4 1/4, but after looking at my jotted down numbers again 54.4 1/2 might have been closer. So the thrown charges might be a hair under an average 44.1. I got lazy and didn't weigh the thrown charges I loaded, I just threw 5 more immediately after all the throwing/weighing charges and loaded them.

I may get a chance to shoot them this afternoon. It will be interesting to see the SD on the weighed vs thrown charges of StaBall 6.5. Hopefully both are good. Real good would be even better.

 

[Walkalong]

Got out to the range this afternoon. I shot 2 to warm up the barrel, then 5 of the hand weighed ones in the first group, then let the barrel cool a little, then shot the 5 where I just dropped charges in the second target.

Shot group #1 with my light coat on, shot #2 without it, should have done both without it. The second group would have been a high 2 or low 3 if one had not leaked out top right, and would have been real nice, but is still not bad.

Funny how both first shots were showed the highest FPS. And I got the same error message with both groups/set of numbers. Hopefully it's the battery, I have been using the one that came with it. I think I have it set up correctly, and set it up exactly like the other times out.






44.2 Grs was 3071 the other day (51.0 Degree 30.12 inHG 81% RH.), so 4 out of 5 of the velocities in each set seem about right.

Today was 52.8 Degrees - 30.1 inHG - 61.0 % RH

With the chrono error, I guess all I did today was waste time and components, and now I have 5 to save to shoot it the heat to compare to bad numbers today. Guess I'll load 5 more and retest with a good battery, or do I have the chrono set up wrong?

Error message was:

4 shot error
Peak not detected
Signal strength low

I need to read the PDF I downloaded for it.