Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

[Varminterror]

I’ll start cataloging topics per page this evening after I get back from the HS wrestling dual, and send the list in PM once I have it tallied. Been a long road to get here! Lots of valuable info.

 

[RussellC]

If are interested in this type of thing, the thread flows from one batch of great info to the next. All the topics are inter related, all cover various things that we have all wondered about with comments on actual use and implementation suggestions. Scopes? various different ones are discussed, as well as use. Calibers? Same thing, with both reloading tidbit on various calibers, barrels, twist everything. Organization would be sweet, but the whole thing deserves a read. This has become the first thread I check upon return.
Yes, it covers a few different topics which can be fleshed out by looking to other forums here, but is a collection of value as is.

Russellc

 

[Walkalong]

I loaded up 5 6BR cases with --- too much, pressure signs Grs N-150 under 107 Gr SMKs. Almost used 31.5 (Should have), and will next time for fire forming the other 95.

I adjusted the BR-30 measure to throw about -- Grs. After settling the measure down I threw and weighed 10 charges which weighed from ------ (+/- .3 Grs which isn't bad for stick powder) Then I threw five more and seated bullets over them, didn't weigh those.

Went to the range and shot a group with them, the shots were 2903, 2914, 2916, 2904, 2907 for an average 2909 & SD 5.9.

The first three shots where basically one ragged hole, then the wind started blowing left a little bit and blew shot # 4 far left. Then the wind picked up a hair more, but this time I held two bullet holes right, dumping shot # 5 in the middle.

I was impressed with the MPA muzzle break on the MPA rifle, so I tried it on the Impact. It moved the point of impact a good bit, left and up.

I still got a couple of error messages with the MagnetSpeed chrono. Very frustrating.

Edit: Removed charge weight, pressure signs. SMKs aren't as forgiving jammed to fire form as the Bergers were.

 

[Varminterror]

Sorry for my delay fellas, one of my wrestlers broke his arm, had to see pediatric orthopedist, and ended up in surgery this week, so I’ve been in and out of town with him and his family. I’ll crank on this tonight a bit.

 

[Walkalong]

I always deburr and chamfer new brass, not heavily like some people do, or like most of the triway type trimmers do, but I give it a couple of light twists by hand, or just barely touch it if I do it under power. Just knock off the 90 degree edges which are usually rough, even on good brass. The inside of necks are often "washboarded" like a dirt road gets, which is why I reamed .220 Russian cases before neck turning them to fire form in 6 PPC cases. After trimming they all get a new deburr/chamfer job.

So I did a little experiment yesterday, I seated a bullet in a brand new Lapua 6 BR case, then I seated another bullet in a brand new Lapua 6 BR case I had very, very, very lightly chamferred, less than I normally do.

The untouched case had heavy seating pressure with the hand die/arbor press. The lightly chamfered case had much lighter pressure seating the bullet.

Then I pulled both bullets.

Bullet from the very lightly chamfered case on the left. Not even a VLD chamfer tool.

 

[taliv]

yeah, one of many reasons all new brass goes through the giraud trimmer before it gets shot.

what's up with your magnetospeed??

 

[Walkalong]

I don't know, I am going to lower it back to where it was and turn up the sensitivity to 4 this time and see.

Pics of where it was.

 

[taliv]

that's too low. raise it up.

 

[MCMXI]

@Walkalong, I always run new brass through a neck sizing die and then deburr for the reason that you mention, i.e. to get consistent bullet seating force which I always assumed could be correlated to consistent neck tension. Your photo showing the bearing surface of those two bullets should alleviate any doubt that this is a worthwhile step.

 

[Walkalong]

that's too low. raise it up.

I did, and turned up the sensitivity from 2 to 3, still got errors. Gonna turn it up to 4 but keep it 1/4" below the bore next time. Go from there.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I went down to SE Nevada last weekend to visit friends and do some shooting.

Took the 5.56 SPR / 77 NCC and the 223AI/75 ELD out to 880, and the 6x47/115 RDF to 1160.

After a little rain on Saturday


Edited to correct bullet weight

 

[Walkalong]

That is very cool.

 

[Walkalong]

My buddy Jeff had a bunch of 6 Creed and .243 rounds he wanted to chrono, so after work we went to the range and did exactly that with the MagnetoSpeed. Only one error for the 10 or 12 loads chronoed. He must have fired 80 rounds. I wrote everything down for him as we chroned it on little "Chrono Sheets" I made in Excel. I have about 8 or 9 different kinds, simple ones for pistol, and these I made for PRS shooting. I print full sized 8x11 sheets and cut them in half, to put on my little clip board. Handy for bring home numbers for those who don't bluetooth etc.

 

[Nature Boy]

Have any of you guys tried the new Berger 109s?

I bought a box as was going to do some load testing

 

[Walkalong]

Gonna try out the Gen III Little Bastard on the Dasher

 

[Walkalong]

Oh, and I drilled two holes in my old barrel vice so I can bolt it to a bench, or to a piece of angle iron to clamp in a bench vice to give more clamping power.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Have any of you guys tried the new Berger 109s?

I bought a box as was going to do some load testing

I'm pretty happy with how the 115 RDF are shooting in my gun but Bergers are a good choice.

 

[Walkalong]

I loaded up two different loads in the 6 Creed cases (108 Gr ELDs with StaBall 6.5 and Berger 105 Gr Hybrids with N-160), some more fire forming loads in 6 BR brass, and some extra "match" loads in 6 Dasher brass to check my 100 yard zero with the new APA Gen III brake. We are finally getting some sunshine tomorrow, took off work to go shoot.

 

[Varminterror]

@Walkalong - I’ve been busy of late finishing our wrestling season, but I checked my magneto last night, I’m only running 2 for sensitivity. I kinda cheat, I stick the alignment bar into my can/brake/muzzle and then eyeball the bayonet below it. I also run my bayo way too far forward, since the knurling on the rear of my SiCo Omega leaves it tilted upwards, but I still pick up my shots. The alignment rod is supposed to be the MAX distance from bore, so I set mine up about half the bar thickness below the bar as it’s held in the bottom of the bore.

PRN caught this photo on the zero line at the Midwest Finale this fall, even with my bayo about twice as far out as it should be, I still pick up every shot on 2 sensitivity.

 

[Walkalong]

Another reason to get a suppressor. I just started the process of doing a gun trust. Will include my wife,two kids, and my nephew Sam.

 

[Walkalong]

Shot some 6 Creed in the wind this AM with my older brother who is in from Chicago, first time he has shot a rifle like these and he loved it.

Load # 15
41.4 Grs of N-160 and Berger 105 Hybrids .010 to .015 off the lands. 51.7 degrees, 30.01 pressure, 57 % RH

Shot #1=2974
Shot #2=2970
Shot #3=2979
Shot #4=2983
Shot #5=2980

Hi=2983
Lo=2970
Avg=2977
ES=13
SD=5

Managed a nice little 3 in a wad and two hanging out group in the switchy wind. Need to shoot this in the heat. Previously shot 41.3 Grs N-160 with the Berger at 63.7 degrees for an average 2937 FPS. ES & SD not quite as good.


Load # 16
43.3 Grs StaBall and 108 ELDs .010 to .015 off the lands. Fed 210M primers looked good. Need to shoot in hot weather, but ES & SD numbers still not great. Haven't had any great ones with StaBall yet. 51.7 degrees, 30.01 pressure, 57 % RH

My brother shot a nice under 1/2" group with this load in the MPA/Curtis actioned rifle and proudly took the target home to show his wife. When he first saw the targets on the paper he remarked how small they were, but after shooting he understood.

He shot the two barrel warm up rounds first and that helped him get ready to shoot a group.

Shot #1=3087
Shot #2=3117
Shot #3=3092
Shot #4=3081
Shot #5=3082

Hi=3117
Lo=3081
Avg=3092
ES=36
SD=14.7

Primers looked pretty good, may be able to bump it up a little and bring the ES & SD in line, or maybe I have just missed the "nodes".

I also got the Impact 6 dasher back on at 100 yards with the new brake. Didn't play with the top ports yet though.

This makes the second time out with no chrono errors after re-adjusting the MagnetoSpeed and setting the sensitivity to 4.

 

[Walkalong]

Found the rest of the data (Just gave the average above) for the previous N-160 load of 41.3 Grs of N-160 & Bergers. 67.3 degrees

Shot #1=2927
Shot #2=2930
Shot #3=2953
Shot #4=2946
Shot #5=2929

Hi=2953
Lo=2930
Avg=2937
ES=23
SD=11.7

41.4 Grs of N-160 and Bergers from above. 51.7 degrees

Shot #1=2974
Shot #2=2970
Shot #3=2979
Shot #4=2983
Shot #5=2980

Hi=2983
Lo=2970
Avg=2977
ES=13
SD=5

 

[taliv]

So what’s your best SD with staball?

 

[Walkalong]

14.7 with the 108 ELD and 43.3 Grs. I'm going to try 43.5 Grs StaBall with them. StaBall seems to like the heavier bullet with more bearing surface. Could be my imagination though.

 

[Walkalong]

Jeff shot some 105(?) Gr Noslers today with Superperformance in his brand new 6 GT and got real little SDs. He called me from the range thinking his gun was broken because the first round wouldn't chamber. He said he got the OAL by seating a bullet and chambering it, then backed off .005 so we was OK. Sigh. I explained again about base to ogive, sent him links to Sinclair tools to measure that, and a link to a video how to. Anyway, I told him he was into the lands to push harder and see if it would chamber. It did, so he shot them.

My Sinclair stuff.


I use the Whidden Case Gauge for my dasher, works great. (Their pic)



I use the take the firing pin assembly and ejector out method to get where the bullet hits the lands. I've posted it before.


I get the setting on my Wilson seater, record it, go from there. I don't try to get to the nearest .001.