Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

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I need to figure out what all I need besides a gun, scope, and ammo.

Sounds like I need a shooting bag, some sort of tripod, a bipod, spotting scope.

What you need to attend a match or two and learn is a capable rifle and scope, ammo, a rear bag, and dope for your rifle, you won’t win, but you can get hits and at a local match you can borrow some other gear (bags/tripod) to see what you like

there are needs, wants and nice to haves

For club matches:
Tripod- not needed-want, can borrow
Spotting scope - not needed - i want
Range finder - not needed- I want
Wind meter - not needed - I have a cheap one
Ballistic app - not required but I use mine continually, (TRASOL)
Bags:
Rear bag (tab gear rear bag or a sock full of beans/sand for example) need but can probably borrow
Barricade bag -(think game changer/ fortune cookie or Saracen) want but can borrow, can also use rear bag for this
Knee bag - I borrow if needed, I will buy one eventually, I’m shopping rn, but a backpack can do part of this job
Magazines: i have 1 10rd AICS mag, I can cram 12 rds into it, I need another (on back order)
Sling: I am the only one who seems to use one at my clubs
Notebook/data book- anything that will help you take notes to help you remember the real world results of your predictions. You’ll be shooting at lots of different ranges of different obstacles and you’ll find that your point of impact might change based on the obstacle (blue plastic barrels mess me up)

Eyes, ears, ammo, a gun and glass

There is a Lot if stuff that seems nice to have, at big matches, you might get slight less help with wind or gear- not sure, I have not shot them- but at a local match you should be able to go, with minimal gear and and positive attitude, to learn and have fun while figuring out what else you need

All I really have is a gun/scope/ammo/sling, nice bipod (just got, started with a Harris), cheap wind meter, 2 rear bags (see pictures) and a barricade bag. I use a range bag to carry stuff in, not ideal but in At the soflo matches i have only walked 500 yds from my car to the firing line

I recommend you think like a minimalist, but when you get gear, do it with purpose and buy the nice stuff (like your rifle decision - Seekins should treat you very well)

Attached are two pics of my bags, on the left I have a weibad berry bag and a tab gear small rear bag, the big green one is a tactical udder from bison tactical (same bag as warhorse’s Saracen). It conforms well to any surface and provides a stable, soft, and flat surface for nearly anything you are made to shoot off of.


Finally, swing by snipershide, there are a ton of folks shooting prs and they will be glad to provide some info on gear, much of the gear discussion comes down to personal preference but you can get good info-beware they like to spend money
 
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What you need to attend a match or two and learn is a capable rifle and scope, ammo, a rear bag, and dope for your rifle, you won’t win, but you can get hits and at a local match you can borrow some other gear (bags/tripod) to see what you like
Yea, I don't expect to win first time out for sure, just looking to learn and do OK, not be so unprepared I don't have fun and learn.
there are needs, wants and nice to haves
Nice list, it helps.

I need a couple of bags, something for the rear and something like the game changer.

I have a spotter, and while perhaps not optimal, it's what I have.

I have a Sig Kilo 2000 range finder, hope it is good enough.

The Seekins showed "in stock". I need to call them after X-Mas.

Need to buy a scope, but could get by at first with the Bushnell I have.

Have a cheap tripod. Do you shoot the rifle off of a tripod sometimes? I see pics of them on tripods. If so, a better one would be nice.

Need to download a ballistic app on my phone.

Ears I have, ammo I can make, or buy to start.

Notebook is easy, need to get one.

No wind meter.

Need mags to go with gun.

.....
 
GAP, Manners, and Bushnell
badger ordinance is across the street too.

I use an Eberlestock Halftrack, which is really too big for a match bag
no kidding. i have been using the lo drag a while. here's my review from 6 years ago https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/eberlestock-lo-drag-review.654789/#post-8104549 i can't find the pics that used to go there...
get the scabbard. i never put my gun in it, but i often stuff my coat or jacket or frog togs or rain gear or whatever in it quickly

I need a couple of bags, something for the rear and something like the game changer.
exactly, but bring just the rear bag to your first match and try some other people's stuff before buying the others

I have a spotter, and while perhaps not optimal, it's what I have.
i wouldn't bring this to your first match. i carry a tripod, but i leave my spotter in the truck. i only bring it in case their ROs don't have enough and i loan it to them.

I have a Sig Kilo 2000 range finder, hope it is good enough.
it's fine. you won't really need it at the match, but i advise ranging all the targets to verify they are at the distance the match director said. i've seen many, many errors. even if you get lazy and don't do this, if you see a bunch of dudes before you missing the same target, laze it

The Seekins showed "in stock". I need to call them after X-Mas.
good choice

Need to buy a scope, but could get by at first with the Bushnell I have.
you'll be fine


in my pack i carry knee pads. almost never need them, but when they make you crawl through a concrete tile or something or shooting off a pile of rocks... they're a time saver

i also carry a borka tool kit. you don't need one, but i always wind up helping someone fix their stuff

i HIGHLY recommend bringing a gallon freezer zip loc bag or equivalent. (it does rain/snow at matches) put your match book in it, along with sharpie, some 3x5 note cards, etc. i also keep a vortex monocular in it. this is what i carry to stage briefings. be prepared to take notes. my eyes are old, so i can't see some of the far targets with naked eye like younger guys can. once upon a time, there were unknown distance stages and you'd get DQ'd from match if caught with a laser range finder. so that's why i carried the monocular. these days, prob just bring your LRF.

a dump pouch is handy, or something to put your brass in quickly. friends will often pick up your brass while you're shooting and hand it to you while you're coming off the line.
 
I was considering a Bravo stock/chassis for my rifle recently, I was told by another shooter to use a 12" Arcalock rail instead of the 14, as the 14" extends too far past the end of the Bravo (must be REALLY short in the forend!!). I have the 14" on my Havak and love it, perfect length for my Game Warden. I was personally going to run the numbers before ordering the rail to be sure I knew which made the most sense.

ARCA Swiss dovetails are a standardized photo/video system, whereas the Arcalock system from Area419 offers indexing notches to lock the gear in place. Lots of guys have cheap chinese import rails screwed to the bottom of their forends and do very well with them. $20-50 on Amazon. I like the Area419 stuff, and they are really good people to work with. REALLY go above and beyond for customers. I have an RRS TA3 leveling base in my tripod, with arca plates on the bottom of my binos, spotters, LRF, gopro, canon DSLR's, etc, and the bottom of my rifles. Geissele even just launched their MK18 handguard with an integral arca rail, and the MPA chassis have an integral rail as well. With the cam-lock lever in the RRS bases, it's SUPER fast to swap back and forth, but also super secure.

The full length ARCA rail lets you place barricade stops, bipods, tripods, magnetospeed computer holders, data cards, whatever you want, anywhere you want along the forend. Think of it as a picatinny rail, but wider and more stable. For some obstacles, say, a tractor tire or a small spool or boat simulator platform (pictured below), you just can't fit the entire rifle on the obstacle with the bipod at the normal swivel stud location out front. Shooting from the tripod, you want the rifle supported under the balance point right in front of the magwell. Shooting prone, the extended rail can place your bipod further forward than the end of the forend to offer extra stability (pictured below). I use my barricade block to wedge tight around my Fortune Cookie barricade bag as well (pictured below), and of course, sometimes use it as a barricade block, as designed.

This is an Area419 Arcalock 14" standard rail, mounted in different ways

Bipod out on the end of the spigot for a prone stage

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Pulled in to fit on a boat simulator with a small platform

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Barricade block hugging a bag on a tanktrap

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On the tripod

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I have a Sig Kilo 2000 range finder, hope it is good enough

Have a cheap tripod. Do you shoot the rifle off of a tripod sometimes? I see pics of them on tripod.....
Those sigs are nice, if you can range small steel targets out to 1k you should be good, most stages the ranges are given

Non of the matches I have shot locally have required a tripod stage and it has been fairly easy to shoot the stage without one

I have use a tripod leg to help support the rear of the rifle a few times but there are usually people willing to let you borrow one if your tripod isn’t stable enough

The best “first match” prep advice, grab your step ladder and rifle, practice shooting off of the steps by dry firing on targets that are .5mils or so in size, there is a sprinkler head in 80 yds away that I can use from my living room.

Goal is to get the minimum wobble, work to figure out your body mechanics and figure out how to be stable in sitting, low and high kneeling and various standing positions, focus on solid sight picture, natural point of aim and trigger control through the dry fire session, that way when you have to shoot a stage standing or kneeling, you have a rough idea how to not be a wobbly mess under pressure
 
I also second @taliv 's comments regarding:

1) Dump pouch - I have a drawstring top pouch with a little clip-biner hanging on my pack for my empty brass. Some matches I hang it on my belt even so I can snag up my brass and get off of the line quickly. You can see my black dump pouch snapped to the side of my pack in one of the pics above with a red carabiner.

2) Confirm ranges with the LRF (when not prohibited) - errors are common. Recent example, in sept at a club match, I lased during our stage briefing, realized every target was off by 20yrds - I also couldn't see ANY impact marks on the plates from the 2 squads ahead of us. When we walked back past the squad in front of us on that stage, they confirmed they had ALL blanked that stage - shooting 800-1100yrds in grass pasture with no splash feedback. I hit 8 out of 10, and I think all of our squad hit at least 5, two cleared it - while ~12 guys in 2 squads ahead of us had blanked it. Figure that's free points head of the guys who didn't break out their rangefinders!

@taliv is probably advanced enough in skill he doesn't benefit from this as much as I do, but I like to carry my own spotter all of the time to read mirage and estimate wind as much as possible. I'll guess what a shooter might be calling for wind, then watch their impacts/misses, might even ask what they used when they come off of the line (if I've already shot that stage, since sharing calls is discouraged). Squad mom's/RO's do often appreciate a back-up spotter, as long as you're not overbearing or arguing calls. If a guy ends up needing a tripod for rear support, it's nice to have it in hand - I'm usually the guy who volunteers mine at the line for our squad, to let anyone use it who wants to. We shoot some odd switching wind ranges in Kansas, so having the opportunity to read wind at range continually makes a big difference for me - I've picked up a lot of points when other shooters read the wind they see in their scope, but didn't see what I saw by watching the impact splatter dust blowing off of the target, or dust blowing on a miss, or the mirage and grass bending in the draw between us and the target which doesn't agree with the direction or speed of the mirage rippling over the top of the berm 300yrds behind the 600yrd targets. Taking the time to watch the wind in the binos has paid off at almost every match I've shot, so I don't mind carrying the binos/spotter on the tripod.

BTW - I'm definitely buying a Lo Drag II for next season. I used a Kifaru Tailgunner about half of this season, which was excellent, except I didn't find a satisfactory way to clip my Fortune Cookie to the outside, and it didn't fit inside - so I mostly carried it on my shoulder like a parrot, or on top of my head like I was hauling water in a 3rd world country. Something between these two is exactly what I want - which is exactly what the Lo Drag II is.
 
not advanced. just old. i haven't shot a match in 2 years due to work (even though I PAID for 5 this year...). 2 years ago, none of the matches allowed shooters to be on glass while someone was shooting. it was considered cheating. you could use one up until someone started shooting then you had to turn it away. has that changed?
 
Need mags to go with gun.

If you do end up with the Seekins, get AIAW mags. They're just a touch longer than AICS standard 5rnd mags, but are listed at 10rnds and feed 11rnds. The Seekins lugs are vertical when running, so the lug reaches down deep into the mag lips to strip the next round - perfect for AW mags. The shorter profile AW mags are really great for prone shooting down low, and really nice for certain obstacles. I shot out of a helicopter cabin this fall which REALLY wanted to interfere with full length mags.

On the other hand - the vertical Seekins lugs are a bit of a challenge for tuning regular AICS and ARC mags - you have to open the lips and/or file them down to clear the bolt body and lugs, else you end up crashing the mag when you put pressure on the mag against the barricade bag. All of them work, I have ARC, AICS, and AW mags, even Pmags, and they all feed, but the AW's take the least work and feed the best with the Seekins (most reliably in all positions/pressures).

2 years ago, none of the matches allowed shooters to be on glass while someone was shooting. it was considered cheating. you could use one up until someone started shooting then you had to turn it away. has that changed?

Must have changed, either in rule or at least in culture of enforcement - otherwise I've just inadvertently dodged matches where the MD's and RO's enforced it. There are "blind stages" where it's called out nobody can be on glass, some even where you're kept away from the firing line and don't know anything about the stage or ranges until you shoot it, and I did have some RO's mention once they thought we weren't supposed to be on glass on some stages while someone was shooting, but then the other RO said we could make our wind/mirage reads between shooters (because the last squad had been on glass the entire time), and it was more of a casual observational statement, not really threat of an enforcement. I am FULLY certain that this kind of thing would change with the winds though, like club MD's shooting their own matches, or not, or talking about wind calls allowed in the squad, or sharing gear in squad - or not... So until they tell me to stay off glass, I take advantage of as much wind/mirage info as I can get, and I'll carry a spotter to get it.
 
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nope. bought it last night. prob won't ship til after christmas
i'm hoping i don't like it so much i need one on all my rifles...
 
nope. bought it last night. prob won't ship til after christmas
i'm hoping i don't like it so much i need one on all my rifles...
Or just make sure you have Identical rails on all the rifles, it is super quick to move around
 
What you need to attend a match or two and learn is a capable rifle and scope, ammo, a rear bag, and dope for your rifle, you won’t win, but you can get hits and at a local match you can borrow some other gear (bags/tripod) to see what you like

there are needs, wants and nice to haves

For club matches:
Tripod- not needed-want, can borrow
Spotting scope - not needed - i want
Range finder - not needed- I want
Wind meter - not needed - I have a cheap one
Ballistic app - not required but I use mine continually, (TRASOL)
Bags:
Rear bag (tab gear rear bag or a sock full of beans/sand for example) need but can probably borrow
Barricade bag -(think game changer/ fortune cookie or Saracen) want but can borrow, can also use rear bag for this
Knee bag - I borrow if needed, I will buy one eventually, I’m shopping rn, but a backpack can do part of this job
Magazines: i have 1 10rd AICS mag, I can cram 12 rds into it, I need another (on back order)
Sling: I am the only one who seems to use one at my clubs
Notebook/data book- anything that will help you take notes to help you remember the real world results of your predictions. You’ll be shooting at lots of different ranges of different obstacles and you’ll find that your point of impact might change based on the obstacle (blue plastic barrels mess me up)

Eyes, ears, ammo, a gun and glass

I think this is worth reiterating because I'd hate for anyone reading this thread to see the big lists of pricey accessory's and decide it's too much for them to even take a crack at going to a local match. I only really shoot our local club matches, and honestly don't even own a spotting scope, tripod, barricade bag, knee bag, etc. Going to a few matches is the best way to start really learning this stuff, and all you absolutely have to have to do that, is a rifle, scope, ammo, bipod (I use a pretty basic Harris), rear bag, wind meter (doesn't have to be a kestrel right off the bat), ballistic app, notebook and a backpack. Not that the other stuff isn't useful or valuable, but you can get your feet wet without buying everything on day 1.
 
Have a cheap tripod. Do you shoot the rifle off of a tripod sometimes? I see pics of them on tripods. If so, a better one would be nice.

I missed this earlier - we don't shoot from them very often, but occasionally do. It's good to be practiced enough to be competent. USUALLY, the tripod is provided, and USUALLY it's at a rather annoying height, often that "not quite sitting, not quite kneeling height." And it's usually provided with a hog saddle or RRS clamp. We did a 100% positional NRL match last year (PRS qualifier this year) which required a tripod, but we could use our own.

BUT...

Shooting with the tripod as a rear support on particular barricades can be as common as you want it to be. Being proficient with this is REALLY important, because if you try it in a stage, you really need to be good with it, otherwise, it can cost a lot of time. It does make some really tough obstacles much easier. We had a wobble window at a match, a tic tac toe board shaped frame which spun on a horizontal axle, it absolutely sucked if you didn't use a rear support tripod. Same as shooting from cargo nets, straps, or chains. That's still usually only one or two stages within a match, and you can usually borrow a tripod if you want/need one. The downside, of course, is if you don't own one, you won't be practiced using one, and can lose time...
 
re:arca
i use one as well. you will see it in this thread
I have that bookmarked and have read through it more than once. Beautiful rifle.
If you do end up with the Seekins, get AIAW mags
Will do. Best place to buy them?
Shooting with the tripod as a rear support
I'm not picturing this....?
And it's usually provided with a hog saddle or RRS clamp.
??
 
I'm not picturing this....??

https://goo.gl/images/1HyYxn

The picture might help, the front rests on whatever is required by the stage, the stock is pinched onto the tripod leg. It is very stable, but slow to get into and out of, so a 3+ position 90 second stage it might not be the best solution

And a hog saddle is a vise for a tripod, it allows you to clamp in most rifles or other things to the tripod head, RRS is the Really Right Stuff company that makes top quality tripods and accessories, they have a clamp similar to a hog saddle
 
I forgot to also mention, some guys use tripods as rear support table. Guys will use a platform plate like a Tac Table (I’ll look for pics in a min), usually with a pump pillow on top, to cradle the rear of the rifle with the bipod or front barricade bag resting on the obstacle. It takes a little longer to set up, but it basically turns anything into a bench. I free recoil and have worked hard to limit how many positions and tricks and tools I have to use, so I usually just run the one barricade bag and my “tricks” aren’t using more or different gear, but rather how to make that one bag fit different obstacles to be fast and solid.
 
I forgot to also mention, some guys use tripods as rear support table. Guys will use a platform plate like a Tac Table (I’ll look for pics in a min), usually with a pump pillow on top, to cradle the rear of the rifle with the bipod or front barricade bag resting on the obstacle. It takes a little longer to set up, but it basically turns anything into a bench.

That’s interesting, I use a similar method when deer hunting from a box blind. You can’t see it, but I have my cheapo Primo’s tripod under the butt of my stock. It’s a very stable shooting platform

zC7GCOI.jpg
 
Will do. Best place to buy them?

I usually just watch for sales or inventory clearances. Like any AI pattern steel mags, they’re expensive. But they’re expensive because they run, unlike most other platforms. I got a bunch of AW blems 2 yrs ago from Midway for about $30 off of retail, otherwise I just try to wait for sales to stack up. I like to have a full day of mags loaded when I leave in the morning to avoid loading time during the match, but more often than not, I’m still pressing rounds at midnight, so I really only need one or two mags to get through each day.
 
most gunsmiths don't advertise them but they will have a stock of them to sell with the guns they build. you can call around and ask if you can't find any in stock at a normal retailer. i'd also check places like otmtactical and 3rd gen shooting supply
 
The picture might help, the front rests on whatever is required by the stage, the stock is pinched onto the tripod leg
Cool, yea, the pic helps.
Guys will use a platform plate like a Tac Table (I’ll look for pics in a min), usually with a pump pillow on top, to cradle the rear of the rifle with the bipod or front barricade bag resting on the obstacle. It takes a little longer to set up, but it basically turns anything into a bench.
More like what I had pictured in my mind.
a Tac Table
So, does a PIG saddel, a HOG saddle, and a Tac Table basically serve the same purpose? Dang Google wants to search tax table and not tac table.
 
I think this is worth reiterating because I'd hate for anyone reading this thread to see the big lists of pricey accessory's and decide it's too much for them to even take a crack at going to a local match. I only really shoot our local club matches, and honestly don't even own a spotting scope, tripod, barricade bag, knee bag, etc. Going to a few matches is the best way to start really learning this stuff, and all you absolutely have to have to do that, is a rifle, scope, ammo, bipod (I use a pretty basic Harris), rear bag, wind meter (doesn't have to be a kestrel right off the bat), ballistic app, notebook and a backpack. Not that the other stuff isn't useful or valuable, but you can get your feet wet without buying everything on day 1.
Yes, the price of some of the toys is intimidating (Yikes, $500 bipods and tripods!), and it is a good point that we don't have to start with the best of everything, or even everything if we just want to go have fun. I do want to at least be competitive, it's my nature.

I'm on information overload right now, still sifting through all the advise and searching the web on items.

Keep it coming though, great stuff. :)
 
So, does a PIG saddel, a HOG saddle, and a Tac Table basically serve the same purpose? Dang Google wants to search tax table and not tac table.

not exactly. the goal of the pig/hog saddles is to have a tripod support the entire rifle, like this, except in this pic, i directly attach the tripod to the arca rail, which is very stable. pig and hog saddles are basically clamps that will work on ANY rifle and do not require an arca rail. however, they are not all that stable and the rifle will move around a bit under recoil.
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here's a scary old pic of me shooting in a match in mississippi off a saddle clamp long before anyone used arca rails
ronin12d.jpg

the table, is just a table for you to set things on

edit: there's a fairly famous pic of LEO snipers using them in a box over the superbowl some years back. https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=695688 that's prob as good as any practical use for hog/pig saddles, aside from hunting from a blind edit, edit: sorry thats not a saddle they're using in the calgun pics. same goal though
 
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