Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

Did you order the OG or the strapped GC?
GC, didn't seem like a lot of difference, everyone just says get the GC, they don't really say what the difference is besides "Optimized' (Optimized for what?), and I doubt it will be a big deal at least while getting started. If one was better for this or for that, y'all should said. :)
 
Both are right answers. The OG is a little longer and doesn’t have the straps. I see very few guys strapping their bags to their rifles, but either bag is still one of the 3 bags I would really recommend as your “One Bag.”

Which brings me to the most important part of Precision Rifle gear - the Armageddon Gear Uno bag!
 
ha! varmint, i can't find it in search, but i think i linked the original video for the uno bag here when fuller first did it. all the armageddon videos are awesome.

legion, yes this probably does deserve to be a sticky. thanks to everyone for the great contributions. i wonder though, how quickly the info will be dated. prs is rapidly evolving
 
I ALMOST was going to post the same thing - I feel bad giving too much advice on gear, because the game is changing rapidly.
 
That's a big bag, and the video is cute.

When I first saw that bag on the website I didn't read about it or watch the video, all I did was say to myself, my god, I couldn't even lift that up it it was full of stuff. Never realized it was what it was.
 
That's a big bag, and the video is cute.

When I first saw that bag on the website I didn't read about it or watch the video, all I did was say to myself, my god, I couldn't even lift that up it it was full of stuff. Never realized it was what it was.

The video was a joke, originally, but apparently guys called and asked if they really could buy it, so they started offering it.

There’s a dude from OK I believe who comes to a lot of our club matches, and all of the Sanctioned matches up here. He has two of them and carries one at every match. They’re apparently pretty firmly filled, because he uses it like a stool, it stands up a lot taller when he sits on it than I would have thought. I would have guessed it would be totally slack like a beanbag chair.
 
yes it totally was a joke. funny that a guy uses it though.


the conversation about PRS evolving got me thinking about how my gear has changed so much. So I went back through the past 10 years of my match shooting and made a little chart. Even with this, it hardly does the experimentation justice, as this doesn't show important details like how my barrel length went from 26" to 29" and back to 25". Or how I went from light weight to adding lead to the stock with a rear balance, to lighter and more neutral balance, to accommodate changes in sling shooting and driving the gun to "free recoil" etc. And I went from Berger VLD to Hybrids to JLK. I also did some builds with various chassis, including Rock Solid, XLR, etc that I shot in matches but kept them less than a year before bouncing back to something that worked. Same for 6SLR cartridge. Also doesn't show reticle changes over the years. geez...
riflehistory2.png
 
Last edited:
Ballistic Apps for phones.

Can you use them during the match? TRASOL has been mentioned, but I don't see one for anything but Apple, and my phone is a Samsung Galaxy.
 
there was one match in 2012 i think where there was an "EMP" and no electronics of any type were allowed. i think some of zak's competition dynamics matches that involve land nav make you put your phone in a tamper proof medical bag to prevent cheating. otherwise, pretty much every match allows you to use your phone. that doesn't always mean you can. i've been in several where they were too cold for my screen to work and the battery went dead really fast.

i use shooter, and hornady's 4dof, but i have iphone.
strelok is a popular app. i imagine among match shooters, applied ballistics on a kestrel is one of the most common calcs, followed by ab on phone.
 
Almost everyone at Benchrest matches shot "premium" "Benchrest" bullets made by hand and all from the same die. I have used Watson, Gentner, Barts, Knights. The idea is that they are all made by hand and all from the same die, keeping them as close as possible to being identical. There are many more options today.

I don't know what the JLK bullets cost compared to say the mass produced Berger hybrid (Even though it is a cut above many) , but they make a good point on the website as far as cost compared to what someone might spend on a match.

I am not sure the difference would be as critical in PRS as Benchrest. Maybe it is. Do they eliminate that occasional shot where you are pretty danged sure it wasn't you or the rifle?
 
clinch river are popular around here. cautericio (sp?) out in san fran i believe are the ones i always wanted to try.

Do they eliminate that occasional shot where you are pretty danged sure it wasn't you or the rifle?
honestly, i dunno. i like the bc and they're not as ridiculously expensive as some others. and they come pointed. i run the 135g in 6.5x47 (they're not listed on his website... you gotta ask) and the 105g in the dasher.

So most folks show up with pre-run dope on a chart?
dunno about most, but it would be wise. i used to run something like this when mil ranging was popular in matches
index.php

but now i keep something like this in my bag. covers a range of density altitudes. i basically just run a range card on my app and email it to myself then import to excel and print it out
00A39C39-2113-4405-B394-E0DD807C3FCD.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • F324C188-832D-48E5-96B9-312D823AFD5D.jpeg
    F324C188-832D-48E5-96B9-312D823AFD5D.jpeg
    149 KB · Views: 2
So most folks show up with pre-run dope on a chart?

For most club matches around here, the CoF goes out during the week before the match, and Big matches usually give out the match book the day before at check in. So then the night before, I look at the weather and estimate the DA I should use, then I make pre-printed wrist coach cards using MSO PowerPoint. I check my DA day off with my Kestrel, and run StrelokPro on my iPhone to confirm before each stage. I shrink the stage description and small hit indicator bubbles on my wrist coach card. I also print a little booklet with stage descriptions, ranges, and positions, which lets me take notes for my windhold and impacts right after I shoot the stage, and make notes of what gear I used, how it work, what felt good, bad, or different, etc. I catalog it all in a more organized way when I get home. If I DON’T pre-print that template, then I end up neglecting to write down a lot of info and don’t learn as much to take back to practice later.

For matches which don’t give out the stage info beforehand, I print generic blank templates for my wrist coach and data booklet, then fill them out in pen after check in in the morning.

I use StrelokPro mostly now, have used AB Mobile a lot in the past and prefer its table better than StrelokPro (‘cuz mine crashes every time I try to open the table). I also use my AB engine on my Kestrel.

And of course, take a data book with every 1000ft DA calculated and recorded, and confirmed DOPE at selected DA highlighted.
 
Density altitude is the effective altitude/air density based on environmental contributors - physical altitude, temp, barometric pressure, humidity... All packaged up into one number.

Since we don’t have the opportunity of sighters in Precision Rifle matches, we have to account for changes in environmental factors up front to decide whether we need to dial off or dial on vs. our standard DOPE table.

It’s not highly critical, a guy doesn’t need to be within 5ft, as being within about 500 is more than sufficient.

A Kestrel will measure the environmental and kick out your DA. Otherwise you can use local weather info most of the time and run an online calculator in a pinch (pilots use DA, so calculators are online for free). I would recommend simply bugging another shooter with a Kestrel a few times during the day instead of using weather station data which might be an hour away (or more, some times).

The only other challenge with weather data is the need to know your actual muzzle velocity at the ambient temp. OR at least know your actual MV if you keep your mag tucked in your inside pocket against your body on cold days and covered in the shade of your pack on hot days. The DA lets you ‘figer how fast your bullet slows down, but you gotta know how fast it started too. The powder you choose will dictate how vulnerable you might be here.
 
generally speaking, it matters past about 500 yards. you can see in the dope card i posted, a 2000' DA change at 1200 is worth .3 mils. or roughly 13" at that distance. definitely enough to put you off a target.
in TN where I live, DA gets down around -1000 in the winter and up around 3500 in the summer on average days. I think i printed that card when i was shooting the snipershide cup out in colorado years ago.

if you've got AB in your kestrel (or another calc), it pulls the components separately and calcs them automatically so you never have to think about it. A large percent of competitors do that. I don't though. i just use kestrel to spit out DA, then i input that manually into my calc. i'm not advocating one way or another.
 
i just use kestrel to spit out DA, then i input that manually into my calc.

That’s how I operate. Read DA on my Kestrel, feed that number into StrelokPro on my phone. A lot of guys do it all in the Kestrel, but I’d guess half of the guys on my average squad last year just use the Kestrel to get DA and their phone does the ballistics - that is to say, half of those who did SOMETHING, since some guys just show and go, no calc’s during the day.

How I set up, welcoming advice to improve: Before each stage, I feel out the wind at my position as I set up my bino tripod, then take a call against what I see down range. I pull out my Kestrel, swing it around a bit, then measure the DA at the shooting position, press down once to get to my wind screen (and I only measure full value wind, pointing my Kestrel cap at the target from behind the shooting position, no need for value-call corrections that way). If the current actual DA isn’t more than about 1000’ off of what I used to build my wrist coach cards, I don’t change anything. If it’s more than 1000’ or shots in the stage are longer than 1000 in that stage, I run it again and correct my card. I get to check wind local and at range visually, then confirm/correct wind local. I pull out my phone and confirm my data in StrelokPro if I have time no matter what, but I re-run for sure if the DA is off more than 1,000’.

I set my wrist coach cards up based on calculated DA the night before using weather report forecasting and local elevation - to the nearest 500’. I compare that data against DOPE, then sleep with confidence in my preparation. Everything else that day, I consider as corrections, which is either confirmed, rejected, or “no called” in my post-stage notes.
 
the only improvement i'd suggest is to set up the custom screen on your kestral so you don't have to press the down button haha
For past 8 years or so my kestrel has been on the same screen that shows wind speed, temp and DA.
 
If the scope is < $2K retail, a US made Steiner T5Xi would be VERY high on my list. I have two of the 3-15s, but would choose the 5-25 for PRS.
I was rereading the whole thread a couple of days ago and saw this. I know I already ordered a scope, but am curious.

Is this the scope? What kind of rep do they have with PRS shooters, are they used much, what's a good price?

I think I have ordered all the critical items.

Gun, scope, rings, two AG bags, extra AIAW mag (Does the Havak come with one?), ammo, anti cant device, brake, arc spigot for the Bravo stock.....short rail for the spigot so I can mount the Atlas bipod I have.....think that's it.
 
Looks like the scope but with no model # I'd be suspicious.

My recommendation was based on my use. I have no idea how popular they are but the features seek right and I was impressed with the glass andand bu.
 
i haven't looked through one in years but at that price it's prob not a horrible choice. there was a brief period of time when steiner had a lot of fan boys over on snipershide. i don't know anyone who uses one in matches. but i'd do some searches over there for feedback.
 
I've heard that the T5XI had some quality issues shortly after introduction, but that they've pretty well mopped those up. From the reading I've done, I don't think I'd cancel the XRS II and switch just to save a few hundred $$.
 
Oh, no worries there, never crossed my mind, and the XRS II has already shipped. Just curious.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top