Looking to Buy a Handgun But I’m 19

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It is. The quotes were because of the ridiculous Federal law that says that people over 21 cannot buy "handgun" ammo. The problem is, very few calibers are totally exclusive to handguns. All of the common handgun calibers like .22 LR, .380 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP etc. have carbines and/or rifles that are chambered in them too. So you can legally buy .22 LR ammo for a Ruger 10/22, for example, but not for a Ruger MK2, even though the ammo is exactly the same.
Ah gotcha. Yes I do think it is a bit ridiculous
 
Honestly man, getting advice about stuff like this from folks on an internet forum is rarely a good idea. The sources you should be looking at are the official ones, not what we tell you here. State and Fed gun laws are confusing, that's for sure, but getting opinions on a forum will only muddy the waters further. Now, if somebody gives you a link to the actual official sources for the information you seek, then that can be useful, but don't take people's word for it just because they're on a gun forum. Remember, anybody with an internet connection and third grade level reading ability can sign up and express their opinion on these types of forums. That's not to denigrate anyone here, it's just the truth.

All that being said, look up Kentucky statute 527.100
Reading statute 527.100 it seems that it is only referencing those under 18 (minors). I do appreciate your response
 
True. However, if everyone followed this, a huge portion of the threads on this forum and others like it wouldn't exist. Failing to do basic research and instead asking a question on a forum is SOP in many cases. Hopefully the OP can learn that early on.:thumbup:
Lesson learned! Just got ahead of myself. I appreciate all of the honest feedback
 
Reading statute 527.100 it seems that it is only referencing those under 18 (minors). I do appreciate your response
Right, and therefore it logically follows that those 18 and over are not subject to those restrictions. Just FYI, I'm a logger and construction worker, not a lawyer, so my opinion is worth what you paid for it. ;)
 
Like said above, do your own research. You are the one ultimately responsible if you make a mistake.

Also, as seen above there is a lot of confusion even among gun owners about what is legal and illegal regarding an adult under 21 possessing a handgun. Get used to it. If you know the law and can explain it, you will be in a much better position than if you say "I heard it was legal..."

As far as federal code, USC 922(x) covers minimum age of possession (hint: it's 18). A sticking point is that you cannot transfer a gun through a FFL, which I think is the source of so much confusion. Note this also means you'll want to be careful if you bring your pistol to a gunsmith.

I am not an expert on KY law, but it looks like 18 is the minimum age of possession. If that's the case (and no other state laws prohibit the transfer to someone under a certain age) you will legally be able to acquire a pistol in any legal method that does not involve a transfer through a dealer. Gun shows are an obvious option, but other options include the for sale section of forums and Armslist (sellers in your state).

If using a private sale, I would recommend against telling the seller that you are under 21. If you are legally able to possess and receive the firearm, that's all that matters. Bringing up the age issue just adds needless complexity.

Be careful about if your dad purchases the gun. Legally speaking a straw purchase has nothing to do with whether or not the eventual owner can pass the background check and everything to do with the person filling out the paperwork lying on the question "are you the actual purchaser of this firearm". Standard straw purchase rules apply - there's no "special" consideration given to you because you are between 18 and 21 and related. Now is it not likely that you would be prosecutedn, but it's not a good idea to discuss that on a public forum either.

Also keep in mind that for the most part firearms laws refer to possession, not actual ownership. The idea of saying "it's my father's gun, he just let me borrow it" doesn't change your legal position at all.

The ammo bit is a little sticky. Avoid places like Walmart that have an automated prompt to request ID. I'd recommend using a local gun shop. You could buy a 9mm rifle so you can say that the ammo is for a rifle. Some online retailers don't (or at least used to not) request copies of ID when ordering online. And finally, going back to the legal mechanism for prosecuting straw purchases - a lie on the 4473. Note that there's no 4473 for ammo, so legally there is no "straw purchase of ammo" (at least federally).

While I was between 18 and 21, I had a pretty decent collection of pistols (all purchased legally by me without any input from my parents). I strongly recommend that you know the applicable code (both state and federal) and can cite it without having to look it up. I had so many people telling me that I was breaking the law and threatening to take my guns (some by force) that I printed out copies of state and federal code, as well as ATF publications and state and federal case law and stored it in a binder with my guns. I had one FFL threaten to report me to the ATF and dropping that binder on his desk went a long way to him never bringing up the topic again. Hell, at one point I even had copies of the code in my THR signature as well.

Also consider getting a carry permit. Several states offer non-resident permits to anyone above 18 and while there is some paperwork and fees attached, I think it is worth it. You may not be able to carry in your state on another state's permit, but if you go to another state you might be able to carry (depending on that state's reciprocity). It also goes to the "oh, this is illegal? So how did I get a carry permit?" retort. Maine and New Hampshire were the two permits that I applied for (and received).

Anyway, I hope some of this rambling was helpful. Good luck!
 
Right, and therefore it logically follows that those 18 and over are not subject to those restrictions. Just FYI, I'm a logger and construction worker, not a lawyer, so my opinion is worth what you paid for it. ;)
Logically and the law are two different things, as Frank and Spats will tell you. 18 to 21 year olds might not be subject to those restrictions by State Law, but Federal Law is a whole nother ball of wax.

While I was between 18 and 21, I had a pretty decent collection of pistols (all purchased legally by me without any input from my parents). I strongly recommend that you know the applicable code (both state and federal) and can cite it without having to look it up. I had so many people telling me that I was breaking the law and threatening to take my guns (some by force) that I printed out copies of state and federal code, as well as ATF publications and state and federal case law and stored it in a binder with my guns.

Me, too, and still do, though now it is pertaining to WI State Law and employers vis a vis having guns in the vehicle in an employer's parking lot.

Basically Justin, we are all in our own way telling you what we know but also that you have to do the research yourself to find the definitive answers-the ones that will keep you out of jail, and happily able to enjoy a new handgun.
 
Logically and the law are two different things, as Frank and Spats will tell you. 18 to 21 year olds might not be subject to those restrictions by State Law, but Federal Law is a whole nother ball of wax.



Me, too, and still do, though now it is pertaining to WI State Law and employers vis a vis having guns in the vehicle in an employer's parking lot.

Basically Justin, we are all in our own way telling you what we know but also that you have to do the research yourself to find the definitive answers-the ones that will keep you out of jail, and happily able to enjoy a new handgun.

Makes sense! Seems like a pretty complicated and potentially messy ordeal. Might just keep myself entertained with my AR’s for now
 
I can only tell you what I would do.

My first choice: Literally the easiest thing to do is shop around on Armslist. Don’t advertise the fact you’re 18 and don’t try to talk people into selling to you if they say 21+ or CCW. 9mm polymer pistols are a dime a dozen and you’ll find one today if you have cash.

My second choice: buy an 80% frame and a complete slide/barrel online.

Lastly, buy your ammo online or from a store than recognizes there are 9mm rifles.
 
I can only tell you what I would do.

My first choice: Literally the easiest thing to do is shop around on Armslist. Don’t advertise the fact you’re 18 and don’t try to talk people into selling to you if they say 21+ or CCW. 9mm polymer pistols are a dime a dozen and you’ll find one today if you have cash.

My second choice: buy an 80% frame and a complete slide/barrel online.

Lastly, buy your ammo online or from a store than recognizes there are 9mm rifles.

I would probably go the second route being that I want a glock style frame but add a skeletonized slide and custom barrel.
 
Logically and the law are two different things, as Frank and Spats will tell you. 18 to 21 year olds might not be subject to those restrictions by State Law, but Federal Law is a whole nother ball of wax.
Federal law prohibits FFL's from selling handguns to people under the age of 21. Nothing in Federal law prohibits those under 21 from buying a handgun from a non FFL.
 
Federal law prohibits FFL's from selling handguns to people under the age of 21. Nothing in Federal law prohibits those under 21 from buying a handgun from a non FFL.
That was my original understanding. I assume the same applies for AR pistols since they are labeled as pistols?
 
1) If someone lawfully purchases it, then gifts it to you, it's yours, and it's legally owned by you.

2) If someone (other than a licensed dealer) who already owned it gifts it to you, it's yours, and it's legally owned by you.

3) If you buy it yourself from a private seller who is not a licensed dealer, it's yours, and it's legally owned by you.

4) If you buy it via a seller you contact online (GunBroker, Armslist, etc) and take possession of it in person, number 3 applies. You cannot take possession of it from a dealer, so FFL-to-FFL transactions cannot be utilized.

5) If someone buys it for you (from any source), using your money (right then and there, or at the promise of you repaying) and at your request, then presents it to you, then you and the buyer may both be in violation of Federal and State law for having participated in what's known as a "straw purchase", as it may appear the purchase was to circumvent the "21-to-purchase" laws.
 
AR-type pistols are still "handguns" under Federal law, so they fall in with other types regarding handgun acquisition laws.

EDIT: I see bearcreek was reviewing at the same time as I.
 
Yes. AR "pistols" are handguns under Federal law. Once again though, state law may differ.
Welp pretty much every gun I see I want. But I think my next purchase will be a 9mm (glock or sig), then an AR in .308, then an F1 AR pistol, and so on. It’s an addiction... I envy those YouTube channels where the guys have every firearm they could ever want
 
Only thing I could find within Ky law is that you have to have a License to CC. Otherwise it’s fair game if you are 18. This is just what I read. Not sure how accurate.
Keep in mind that CC laws are changing in KY right now.

What I did, right, wrong or indifferent, was to find a revolver, take my dad who fell in love with the gun as soon as I pointed at it and said “hey that’s the one I want” and HE bought it. I just borrowed it a whole lot from the time I was 16 until I was 21. His gun, his gun safe. My understanding is 18 to possess, 21 to buy, so assuming your family member trusts you to borrow THEIR gun then there isn’t much to worry with.

Best advice though, contact an attorney and/or DA to see what the absolute legal lines are so that you don’t cross them.
 
Keep in mind that CC laws are changing in KY right now.

What I did, right, wrong or indifferent, was to find a revolver, take my dad who fell in love with the gun as soon as I pointed at it and said “hey that’s the one I want” and HE bought it. I just borrowed it a whole lot from the time I was 16 until I was 21. His gun, his gun safe. My understanding is 18 to possess, 21 to buy, so assuming your family member trusts you to borrow THEIR gun then there isn’t much to worry with.

Best advice though, contact an attorney and/or DA to see what the absolute legal lines are so that you don’t cross them.
That’s similar to what I was speaking about in the posts above! That’s a viable option I might consider
 
That’s similar to what I was speaking about in the posts above! That’s a viable option I might consider
Gotta watch how and where you do that, though; as MedWheeler and I have tried to point out, a dealer could believe an attempted straw purchase was taking place, and refuse to sell.
 
Gotta watch how and where you do that, though; as MedWheeler and I have tried to point out, a dealer could believe an attempted straw purchase was taking place, and refuse to sell.
Yeah my dad knows little to nothing about guns so for him to go pick one out and know nothing about it would look a bit fishy to a dealer
 
Welcome to THR, Justinww11! I've reviewed the thread and can tell you that my fellow residents of THR have covered the big points:
  1. Federal law = 21 to buy from an FFL, 18 to possess. See 18 USC 922
  2. #1, above, leaves open the possibility of a private party purchase, if that's allowed under state law
  3. Handgun ammo and rifle ammo have an odd wrinkle under federal law, requiring one to be 21 years of age to buy handgun ammo
  4. State law is an entirely different matter.
Bear in mind that you have to deal with both state and federal law. Federal law trumps state law in the event of a conflict between the two.
. . . . I want to buy a handgun here soon to practice with that I will eventually end up CC’ing when I turn 21. The only way I know to buy a handgun at my age is at a gun show. I know it is technically legal for me to do so but if I do end up buying one, can I get in trouble with the law for having it? Either in my truck while going to my farm or in other instances.

It just seems almost black market to “under cut” federal law in this way even though the gun show method is well known. . . . .
It seems like this was mentioned before, but I want to be very clear on one thing: The "gun show loophole" to which this refers is a myth, plain and simple. FFLs have to do background checks on every gun they sell from business stock, whether it's at the store, at the gun show, or out on someone's back 40 acres. Private sellers do not have to do those checks. The anti-gun factions have been pretty successful in convincing the American public of the existence of this "gun show loophole," and it's just not true. Personally, I use a different word for "loophole." I call it "legal." ;)

Check the laws of your state, and get proper legal advice rather than depend upon anonymous internet strangers.

Getting it wrong, and obtaining a felony, will haunt you the rest of your young life.
Lots of truth in this one.^^^
Yes I understand. I was just looking for clearance because I get confused between state and fed laws and how they apply in each situation
Due to the Supremacy Clause, federal law is superior to state law when there's a conflict. If there is no conflict, both apply. Let me give you a couple of examples.

Example 1, Conflict: Federal law says you have to be 18 to possess a handgun. The State of Rootintootin passes a law that requires anyone over the age of 16 to carry a handgun for self-defense when traveling alone. There's a clear conflict. Rootintootin's law requires something prohibited by federal law. Federal law wins, and Rootintootin's law is void.

Example 2, No Conflict: Federal law says you have to be 18 to possess a handgun. The State of Notsofast passes a law prohibiting anyone under the age of 21 from possessing a handgun. There's no conflict here. Federal law only says that you may possess a handgun at 18, not that you must. You can comply with both federal law and Notsofast's by simply not possessing a handgun until the age of 21.

Reading statute 527.100 it seems that it is only referencing those under 18 (minors). I do appreciate your response
With the caveat that I am not licensed in KY, that seems like a fair reading.
KY Legislature said:
(1) A person is guilty of possession of a handgun by a minor when, being under the age of eighteen (18) years, he possesses, manufactures, or transports a handgun as defined by KRS 527.010, except when the person is:
(a) In attendance at a hunter's safety course or a firearms safety course;
(b) Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm, or target shooting at an established firing range, or any other area where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited;
(c) Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or participating in or practicing for a performance by a group organized under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code or any successor thereto which uses firearms as a part of the performance;
(d) Hunting or trapping pursuant to a valid license issued to him pursuant to the statutes or administrative regulations of this Commonwealth;
(e) Traveling to or from any activity described in paragraphs (a) to (d) of this subsection with any unloaded handgun in his possession;
(f) On real property which is under the control of an adult and has the permission of that adult and his parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun; or
(g) At his residence and with the permission of his parent or legal guardian possesses a handgun and is justified under the principles of justification set forth in KRS Chapter 503 in using physical force or deadly physical force.
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a handgun is “loaded” if:
(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the handgun; or
(b) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the handgun, if the handgun is a revolver; or
(c) There is a cartridge in the magazine of a semiautomatic handgun, if the magazine is attached to the handgun; or
(d) The handgun and the ammunition for the handgun, are carried on the person of one under the age of eighteen (18) years or are in such close proximity to him that he could readily gain access to the handgun and the ammunition and load the handgun.
(3) Possession of a handgun by a minor is a Class A misdemeanor for the first offense and a Class D felony for each subsequent offense.

Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 527.100 (West)
Bear in mind that your possession and transport of a firearm may fall under other restrictions. In legal terms, a pistol is often meets the definitions of "a handgun," "a firearm," and "a deadly weapon," so statutes applicable to those will apply to the pistol.

Other restrictions include things like school property.
KY Legislature said:
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a weapon on school property when he knowingly deposits, possesses, or carries, whether openly or concealed, for purposes other than instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or the purposes permitted in subsection (3) of this section, any firearm or other deadly weapon, destructive device, or booby trap device in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field, or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education.
(2) Each chief administrator of a public or private school shall display about the school in prominent locations, including, but not limited to, sports arenas, gymnasiums, stadiums, and cafeterias, a sign at least six (6) inches high and fourteen (14) inches wide stating:
UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON SCHOOL PROPERTY IN KENTUCKY IS A FELONY PUNISHABLE BY A MAXIMUM OF FIVE (5) YEARS IN PRISON AND A TEN THOUSAND DOLLAR ($10,000) FINE.
Failure to post the sign shall not relieve any person of liability under this section.
(3) The provisions of this section prohibiting the unlawful possession of a weapon on school property shall not apply to:
(a) An adult who possesses a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a vehicle operated by the adult and is not removed from the vehicle, except for a purpose permitted herein, or brandished by the adult, or by any other person acting with expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property;
(b) Any pupils who are members of the reserve officers training corps or pupils enrolled in a course of instruction or members of a school club or team, to the extent they are required to carry arms or weapons in the discharge of their official class or team duties;
(c) Any peace officer or police officer authorized to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to KRS 527.020;
(d) Persons employed by the Armed Forces of the United States or members of the National Guard or militia when required in the discharge of their official duties to carry arms or weapons;
(e) Civil officers of the United States in the discharge of their official duties. Nothing in this section shall be construed as to allow any person to carry a concealed weapon into a public or private elementary or secondary school building;
(f) Any other persons, including, but not limited to, exhibitors of historical displays, who have been authorized to carry a firearm by the board of education or board of trustees of the public or private institution;
(g) A person hunting during the lawful hunting season on lands owned by any public or private educational institution and designated as open to hunting by the board of education or board of trustees of the educational institution;
(h) A person possessing unloaded hunting weapons while traversing the grounds of any public or private educational institution for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting with the intent to hunt on the public or private lands, unless the lands of the educational institution are posted prohibiting the entry; or
(i) A person possessing guns or knives when conducting or attending a “gun and knife show” when the program has been approved by the board of education or board of trustees of the educational institution.
(4) Unlawful possession of a weapon on school property is a Class D felony.

Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 527.070 (West)
Mind you, school property is probably not the only prohibited place under KY law. I offer this merely as one example. Someone mentioned handgunlaw.us as a resource for keeping abreast of these kinds of things, and I agree with that recommendation. Handgunlaw,us is the site I recommend to my friends who want to travel with their firearms.
 
Someone mentioned handgunlaw.us as a resource for keeping abreast of these kinds of things, and I agree with that recommendation. Handgunlaw,us is the site I recommend to my friends who want to travel with their firearms.
:thumbup: The great thing about that site, and what makes it a credible resource, IMO, is the fact that they provide links where you can go read the actual state law to which they are referring.
 
:thumbup: The great thing about that site, and what makes it a credible resource, IMO, is the fact that they provide links where you can go read the actual state law to which they are referring.

Just read through a bit of it. Seems like I can get a CC license in another state and it be honored in KY. Also KY is becoming a permitless state this July
 
Just read through a bit of it. Seems like I can get a CC license in another state and it be honored in KY.
It does appear that way. Looks like Virginia may be the easiest way to go if you decide to go that route. https://www.concealedcarry.com/product/online-concealed-carry-permit/ That being said, as you set out on this "journey" you should be aware that very few concealed carry classes provide anything beyond an extremely basic level of training in how to actually use the handgun. My recommendation would be to focus your resources on getting good training rather than buying multiple guns. Given the choice, you're much better off with fewer guns and more training. There are those here who would disagree with me but IMO, people should generally plan to spend at least an average of $500/year on training.
 
It does appear that way. Looks like Virginia may be the easiest way to go if you decide to go that route. https://www.concealedcarry.com/product/online-concealed-carry-permit/ That being said, as you set out on this "journey" you should be aware that very few concealed carry classes provide anything beyond an extremely basic level of training in how to actually use the handgun. My recommendation would be to focus your resources on getting good training rather than buying multiple guns. Given the choice, you're much better off with fewer guns and more training. There are those here who would disagree with me but IMO, people should generally plan to spend at least an average of $500/year on training.
I agree. I’ve shot guns for a majority of my life but never in a tactical/self defense manner. Will definitely be taking some more advanced rifle/handgun classes
 
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