low flash/ no flash powders

[cpileri]

I had the opportunity to fire my HD handgun indoors in low and no light, with and without hearing protection- That didn't take long believe me!

It was as if someone detonated a nuclear warhead in my hands! Bright enough to ruin vision for a well-aimed (probably 2nd, but at least) 3rd shot.
And JEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZ what a racket! My ears were ringing but I was prepared for it.

Can't imagine what it might do to an infants ears- even if not in the same room!

BTW: it was a Sig 220 in 45 ACP and 2 loads: original Winchester Ranger Talon 230gr (the black coated stuff) and Buffalo Bore's 230gr Flat point +P rounds.

Any ideas for factory or reloading that will at least reduce the flash?

I figure that only a suppressor will dampen the sound signature, and the flash as well. But thats a Class III hassle, 200 extra bucks, etc etc- so I'd rather avoid that for now.

Besides, it would look 'eeeeevil' in court when the prosecution shows any potential jury my 'silencer'!

I know wearing hearing protection and sunglasses might help. But I am looking for realistic suggestions for suprise home defense situations.

Basically, I'd hate to have trained enough to bring a weapon to ready in time for defense- only to be sabotaged by temporary blindness or deafness; or worse to damage my kid's hearing!

I am busy reading my search of this sight (and others) but so far not too too much help.
thanks
C-

 

[Blueduck]

Can't add anything on flash in 45 acp other than to try some other loads. Also remember to check out the lot # of those that you buy. One batch might have significantly more or less flash due to the fact factories often change powder formulation.

On noise all I can say is the one "civillian" I know who actually shot someone in defense told me he never heard one of the six shots he fired from his 357 magnum. Auditory exclusion is very common in high stress situations.

 

[cpileri]

auditory exclusion

Yeah, that's what i mean: i was prepaed for the noise. So my incus, malleus, and stapes and the little muscles that control them tensed to prepare my eardrum for a big noise.

And the auditory exclusion would only protect me.

Its others in the home I am worrying about.
An infant cannot prepare since he/she won't realize its coming.
C-

 

[Blueduck]

I understand your concern about an infants ears. Loud noises certainly are not good for anyone, infant or not. Can't help thinking however that one or two blast from a .45 fired at least a little distance away is not going to do any more damage to an infant than the dozen or so Rock/Rap/Country concerts they'll be attending they finally reach the teen years

Seriously were all in constant state trade offs and compromises in risk managament. Worrying about hearing damage in the 1-10,000 chance you'll need to fire your gun in self defense seems akin to worrying about pulling your ripcord while skydiving causing carpal tunnel syndrome.

Your already using a relativly low pressure round, not much to do beyond that to my knowledge. Maybe others have better ideas.

Best,

Blueduck

 

[cpileri]

ha

I like the ripcord-carpal-tunnel-sndrome analogy!
Can i steal that and use it?
C-

 

[Blueduck]

Feel free. Have a good one

 

[Bahadur]

Your already using a relativly low pressure round, not much to do beyond that to my knowledge. Maybe others have better ideas.

Does chamber pressure correlated to the decibel levels of handguns when fired?

 

[Blueduck]

BBl length, caliber, powder charge and other factors, but genereally I think you'll find the highest pressure rounds produce the most unpleasant blast. It is the gas from the epxlosion that creates the sound, more gas leaving at higher velocity equals more noise all other factors equal. High pressure 357 Magnum/ 357 Sig normally rougher on the ears than lower pressure 38 special, 44 special, 45 acp rounds. Loudest real handgun I've ever heard was a 30 carbine Ruger Blackhawk with a cutdown bbl

That said when I was a kid (running on 20 years ago) I used to read "Combat Handguns". I recall Massad Ayoob explaining how he liked the .45 auto because it produced a "Deep whump" sound instead of the painfull sharp "crack" of higher pressure rounds. Skip foward 5 years when I fired my first .45 auto ever, getting everything else ready I forgot to insert ear plugs. "Deep whump" my butt. I heard a "CRACK" which was very unpleasant and my ears rang for 20 minutes. Still would have been worse had I forgotten my ears with my 2 1/2" 357.

 

[Bahadur]

Which has higher decibels - 9mm Parabellum or .45 ACP? Let's say a non-plus P 124 grain vs. 230 grain.

 

[Blueduck]

Here a link to decibels though it does not list load data: http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

Looks like they measured 9mm at 159.8 and 45 acp at 157.0. 357 magnum was the "winner" at 164.

 

[cpileri]

back again

I was revisiting this thought lately:
I figure what also may work is a longer barrel to ensure more complete powder combustion prior to bullet exit, and a flash suppressor (or a silencer, but I'm not made of $$).
But I absolutely cannot find a place that makes extra long Sig 220 barrels, let alone one that is threaded.
And, I have no idea if a flash hider is legal on a pistol. never have it alot of thought.

But, if I have extra $$ and 6 months to wait, AND could indeed find a long threaded 220 bbl- then that silencer would solve my proposed problem.
C-

 

[1911Tuner]

Noise and Flash

If somebody is breaking in your house with your family there, the noise won't be on your mind...and like Blueduck mentioned, you won't remember
hearing it anyway. The kids will get over it.

I've noticed that when I've got the buck of a lifetime in the cross hairs, the short barreled .308 doesn't even ring my ears. On the range, it's a different story. Adrenalin maybe?

For the flash, if you can think to close one eye just as you're ready to
fire, it will preserve your night vision to a large degree. Try it the next time you do a night fire exercise.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[Biff]

Hornady has a low flash load for .45 ACP. Worked well in my Springfield Champion. I believe it is a 200 grain JHP.

 

[riverdog]

Winchester Ranger Talon 230gr (the black coated stuff) and Buffalo Bore's 230gr Flat point +P rounds

Try some high-end rounds in a standard pressure load and avoid +P. I've found flash is reduced somewhat with Fed Hydra Shok compared to Fed American Eagle, both shooting 230 gr standard P. Same with Black Hills 230 JHP. IIRC it's more of a small blue flame than a yellow orange fireball. I'd expand the test and try a lot more different ammo brands.

Hearing damage is done regardless if you aren't wearing ear protection. Your children won't get over all of it, they'll just live with reduced auditory sensitivity. You may not think you heard it due to adrenalin, but your auditory nerves still took a major hit in sensitivity. Decibel by decibel, you'll get some of it back but some you lose and it doesn't return. Each time it's a little more, don't make it a habit.

 

[1911Tuner]

Ringin' Ears

riverdog said:

Your children won't get over all of it

Well, yeah. That's true enough...but they'll find it easier to live with than
seein' mom and dad stabbed/clubbed to death in the hallway if the
intruder is a hard case. Just establishin' a priority, understand.
.

Can anybody say...Helter Skelter?

Again... If the door gets kicked in, the last thing I'm concerned with is whether everybody has their fingers in their ears.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[Kharn]

I had the chance to shoot my Sistema .45 at an indoor range this past weekend, with WWB valuepack ammo. Previous experiences with it had always been at an outdoor range. The softball sized fireball sure did not help my flinching.

Kharn

 

[BluesBear]

Remember that you are the closest person to your handgun and it will be a lot louder to you. The loudness of the shot will drop dramatically the farther away you are.

As you double the distance the loudness decreases by four.

Hopefully your kids will be safe and sound in another room if you have to drop the hammer.
Just remember to teach them that if they ever hear a shot to NOT run towards it to investigate. Teach them to hide someplace safe like a closet which will also protect them from noise. Tell them to hide under a coat or blanket or anything that provides some extra cover.

You could even put an extra layer of drywall inside the closet for extra bullet resistance.

We teach our families what to do in case of a fire but seldom does anyone practice what to do in a deadly emergency. Glad to see you're formulating a plan.