M1 Carbine cycles rounds but does not actuate trigger

[persing]

HI,
I have been dumbfounded :banghead: by a problem with my old M1 I bought at a show a few years ago.
I have taken it in but the gunsmith, he is swamped in town, and I need a idea from some old schooler's out there.
I have cleanded and cleaned, all the parts look to be in goood condition and I was told it was arsenal refinished at one point.
What happens is, I will clean and oil it and take it to my favorite spot and it will cycle off 4 rounds nice and smooth then I will pull the trigger, and the trigger assembly will not be actuated. It will have a fresh round in the chamber to top it off.
If I pull back on the bolt 1'' and let it go forward the trigger will fire the round.
I was told that it sounds like someone messed with the sear or anthoer part to make it full auto and of course screwed up.If this is the case all I want is it to be semi auto. I can get the parts in no time, I am repairman, I work on cars transmissions and engines, and all the literature on this gun, help's a great deal.
Can any one steer me in the right direction as far as parts to replace?
I do believe there is a pro out there who has had this happen and knows what to do.
Please!! help me bring Winchester .30 Carbine back to life.

Thanks a bunch,

 

[rcmodel]

I would first suspect a weak sear or trigger spring.

If nothing is found there, you might be right and someone has messed with the trigger disconnector hook, or the hammer notches.

Here is a good link on the trigger disassembly & parts.
http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/carbinetriggergroup.htm

You should be able to get parts from any number of on-line vendors.

But if you want to try to match your manufacture or just get the very best GI parts, this is the goto guy.
http://home.att.net/~ra-carbines/parts1.html

rc

 

[Scott23]

M1

I just got a German made M1 and I am having the same issues. Check out Numrich gun supply. rcmodel makes a good assesment, a weak trigger sping and or a weak sear spring might be the problem. I talked to a gunsmith today and he wanted nothing to do with a older gun. looks like we are on our own. good luck, Scott

 

[Old Guard Dog]

Is the operating handle fully seated forward when it fails? It sounds like the bolt is not rotating all the way, because the operating rod is not fully forward. Weak operating rod spring??, or somthing binding slightly??? Sounds like when you pull back on the handle and reseat it, it locks fully, and fires.

 

[Jim K]

I agree with rcmodel on the weak sear spring, but I would suggest also replacing the trigger spring. There could also be a burr on the sear or trigger. If there is evidence that someone worked on the sear or trigger, it might be best to replace that part as well.

Jim

 

[rcmodel]

I talked to a gunsmith today and he wanted nothing to do with a older gun.

A "gunsmith" who won't fix an M-1 Carbine?

You gotta be kidding!

Somebody should go over there and take down his sign!
It qualifies as False Advertising!

rc

 

[persing]

Hey, Thanks for the direction, I appreciate it !!

Yes, I will also add that yes the bolt is in the full forward position.
I did not to add a strange event when I fired it the first time, I pulled the trigger and it blew out 3 or for rounds very fast , it never did that again.
What is the difference between the flat top bolt, and the round bolt's on these good ol gun's? Mine is round and if there is a difference in parts I dont want to be back to square one.
Also, I know the Servicmen in Irack are not using these rounds. I have never seen such a mass glut of .30 carbine ammo. I have no choice but to reload my old brass now (RCBS rock chucker). I may be able to make some nice rounds as well anyway, special recipie?

I am not really particular wether a spring is Winchester or the sear, It is not a Museum weapon. It's a shooter, or kind of a single shot, tripple shot when it feels like it.
Order the whole spring set and a sear while I am at it. I may as well and get a bolt rebuild kit to I paid less for this gun than alot of these reissues and the wear on the barrel and reciver is light.

 

[rcmodel]

The L-hook shaped thing that sticks out the front of the trigger is the disconnector that prevents the gun from firing more then one shot per trigger pull.

You can replace the sear, but I would also replace the trigger while you are at it and make sure the disconnector hasn't been tampered with. Once going that far, I might even replace the hammer too.

Carbines orginally came out with flat bolts. They were later changed to the round bolt when the select-fire full-auto M-2 version came along. The flat bolts were not holding up well to full-auto fire.

As for reload data? Get a Hornady, Speer, or Lyman reloading manual and follow the recipe. They will give you several different powder choices and tell you how much to use.

rc

 

[persing]

M1 or M2

I thought it was a M1 at the show after I purchased it but alot of tables of dealers said what do you want for you M2?.
I got a new triggerhouse assembly and a spring assembly who happens to be a close neighbor you referred to me, riverbank amory, huge Ammo factory, of old, I drive by there once a week on the way home.
I got the springs and triggerhouse assembly parts.
The hammer is not the same, the trigger hook is way off if it was filed there would be no hook, the W marked seer is boat-tailed not slim and narrow.
trigger housing is parkerized and has a house shape with what little I could see is mad inside of the box.
Also the slide is new parkerized with no name and the wear is slight.
What do you look for in a A2 I do know the guys had no problem asking if it was real.I showed it to a M1 table and he said it looks like a M2 but would have to look to be shure.
I did not know the difference, I thought it was the stock style M2.
I have parts now that will not fit the trigger house and the springs are different lengths.Slide spring that came out was softer, and shorter same with the hammer spring,the hammer spring guide was weaker than the one I recieved from George.
I think I will have to call George, even though I live in a gun hater's state.

God Bless Our Troops!

Kirk Persing

PS I do my best with the typo's, give me a break here and there,thanks.

 

[WardenWolf]

You better hope you didn't get an M2. The M2's were capable of fully automatic fire. If it's an M2, you could be in more trouble than you ever realized. The M2 has a selector on the front upper left of the receiver. Go here and you'll see a picture showing where the selector is located:

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_rifle_m1carbine.php3

The stocks are the same. Note that the M1A1 Carbine has a paratrooper stock and pistol grip, which may be what you are mistakenly calling M2. I certainly hope you're wrong there.

 

[persing]

No selector switch, no big trouble here?

I dont get why all the triggerhouse parts are different?Spring length and Hammer as well as the sear being fin shaped and wide.
Maybe a upgrade? I have know idea.
As far as being in trouble, I know this Country has a huge stockpile of supplies they were never intended to have as laws change do you give them back?
NO.
All I am trying to figure out is what is wrong with it period.
Stocks are common replacements for the M1 so that is brobably what they were referring to I am no expert with this old gun. My AR is more familiar.

KP

 

[triggerman770]

It is possible that you have an m-2 triggerhousing. there are some differences in the two.
does your carbine have a selector switch on the left side?
is there a long flat lever on the right side of the trigger housing?
to be sure it's an m2 housing check the drawing # if it is7161828 it's m2
if you have a dogleg hammer its m1

 

[persing]

It's not a M2

It's not a M2 its a M1 but the package I recieved for the triggerhouse has a different saftey switch, a flip sw type. I have the button saftey.
I think there were some minor differences through the years, I have the round bolt as compared to the flat bolts.
The spring tensions and lengths I purchased are longer and stiffer. The hammer shows very little wear and the lower housing is freshly parkerized.
I will change out springs and and take it out in the forest tomorrow and see if that was it.
I have a lot of reloading shells on the way and I want it to work like a clock that was made in the USA. I hope I dont have junk import parts in there.
Thanks for the link, I have a picture of my Dad aiming one of these in WW2 so there is some sentimental value there as well.

KP

 

[persing]

Wrong sear?

I was surprised to find the seer thet was in the rifle did not look at all like the one sent to me. I looked at the diagram on the link and the sear's are different between the flip type saftey and the putton saftey.
I notined the diagran sear has a dropped section, and mine was strait across as seen in some of the other photos.
I would guess this was my problem, I will know for shure tomorrow.
I do know that all parts are not equal in build.Some looked cheap others looked heavier/milled parts.

KP

 

[persing]

Problem solved,
New Hammer spring,and hammer new sear spring and sear with the dropped section that locked the hammer back all the way while engaging the trigger.
I fired 20 round groups with no hangups at all.
I am a happy camper, what a fun shooting piece of history.

KP

 

[rcmodel]

All's well that ends well.

rc