M1 GArand Problem Please assist.
- Thread starter bigjim
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P5 Guy
Member
Did you grease it as instucted by the owners manual? Is the spring in the operating rod 19 3/4 inch long? Is the nut on the gas cylinder tight? Is the operating rod rubbing the stock? By the way the op. rod is supposed to have a bend in it.
A lot of things can cause short cycling. For example, worn barrel bearings, worn gas piston, worn gas cylinder, loose or leaking gas cylinder lock screw, too strong a recoil spring, op rod dragging on stock, a partly clogged gas port, etc.
A quick question. Does this happen with all clips? Sometimes an especially stiff clip will keep a round from feeding into the path of the bolt. Also check the follower and slide to make sure the slide moves freely from side to side.
Jim
A quick question. Does this happen with all clips? Sometimes an especially stiff clip will keep a round from feeding into the path of the bolt. Also check the follower and slide to make sure the slide moves freely from side to side.
Jim
Sleeping Dog
Member
When did you get this gun? Call CMP customer support. If there's something wrong with a gun they sold, they're usually good about fixing/replacing.
Are you using "normal" ammunition? Or something hand-loaded? A weak load or powder that's too fast can cause this.
If you strip the receiver group and put just the bolt and op-rod in, the bolt should "fall" open and shut when you tilt the group about 45 degrees up or down. If it drags somewhere, that can cause the problem also.
Regards.
Are you using "normal" ammunition? Or something hand-loaded? A weak load or powder that's too fast can cause this.
If you strip the receiver group and put just the bolt and op-rod in, the bolt should "fall" open and shut when you tilt the group about 45 degrees up or down. If it drags somewhere, that can cause the problem also.
Regards.
Grump
Member
Is there any chance that the follower thingy in the middle is not shifting to the right direction when you load the clip? First-round only makes me want to look as something giving abnormally high upward pressure on the bolt, through the ammo stack in the magazine (yes, enbloc clip + rifle follower = internal magazine).
I'm not up on the arcane details of M1 Garand cycling and "timing", but a certain part called the "accellerator" may be implicated in your problem...
I'd double-check ammo as well, to make sure the first round loaded in can be manually ejected.
I'm not up on the arcane details of M1 Garand cycling and "timing", but a certain part called the "accellerator" may be implicated in your problem...
I'd double-check ammo as well, to make sure the first round loaded in can be manually ejected.
Sleeping Dog
Member
Grump is a better reader than me. I thought all the rounds were short-cycling, but it's just the first one. So forget the gravity test on the bolt and op-rod, that's probably working fine.
Still worth a call to CMP customer support.
One other thing (and it's been a while since I did this) but I seem to remember the gun can be assembled with the follower installed backward. I can't remember the symptom, but it didn't work exactly right.
Regards.
Still worth a call to CMP customer support.
One other thing (and it's been a while since I did this) but I seem to remember the gun can be assembled with the follower installed backward. I can't remember the symptom, but it didn't work exactly right.
Regards.
Ogive Meplat
Member
I've been told that one must make sure the rounds are correctly loaded into the enbloc clip. I always thought there was no real diff, but a few WW-II types convinced me otherwise when I competed with them in DCM & NRA matches. I was told that the little dimples indicate where the first and last cartridges are to be inserted against the clip walls (link below shows how NOT to load it according to the older vets). I don't recall ever seeing any reference from Scott Duff or others about such a technique - but FWIW, it seemed to work for them and me.
http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1clip.htm
http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1clip.htm
stans
Member
That picture shows the proper way the ammo should be positioned in the clip. Top round is on the left, bottom most round is on the right. It is true that most of the early Garands were modified so that it no longer mattered. Generally speaking, when a Garand fails to operate properly it is due to using improper ammo (incorrect weight bullets, wrong burning rate powder, too light of a powder charge), bent or damaged operating rod, improperly cleaned and lubricated action, weak or bent springs, or gas port problems.
JeffC
Member
I read that the stacking issue applied to early Garands (Springfields, I think) there was a step left out during the machining of the reciever. This was observed and corrected and later models did not matter whether way you stacked the clips. Supposedly it was okay to stack them either way and lefties actually stacked them so the top round was on the right to make it easier to load the clip with the right thumb.
BluesBear
member
Braz and I observed this exact same thing happening with someone elses Garand at the Range Friday night.
It turned out they their problem was that they were loading the clips by inserting the rounds from the front of the clip instead is inserting them fromt the end. They were ending up with some of the cartridges extending forward further that others.
When this happened the second round ALWAYS failed to feed.
It seems that the longer rounds preventing the follower from raising them far enough. But after you got past the second round the tension was lessened, (after all, you cannot get six rounds to stay put in the clip outside of the rifle)
and the remaining six would feed just fine.
After I showed them how to properly load the clips and check for seating they had NO other failures of any kind.
NOTE: This problem, and its solution, may or may not apply to you.
It turned out they their problem was that they were loading the clips by inserting the rounds from the front of the clip instead is inserting them fromt the end. They were ending up with some of the cartridges extending forward further that others.
When this happened the second round ALWAYS failed to feed.
It seems that the longer rounds preventing the follower from raising them far enough. But after you got past the second round the tension was lessened, (after all, you cannot get six rounds to stay put in the clip outside of the rifle)
and the remaining six would feed just fine.
After I showed them how to properly load the clips and check for seating they had NO other failures of any kind.
NOTE: This problem, and its solution, may or may not apply to you.
JeffC
Member
Oh yeah, I got a case of surplus ammo that had many rounds that weren't seated properly in the clips, that could cause a feed problem too, definitely.
There are a couple of "FAQ's" documents on the Fulton Armory website about diagnosing short-stroking and where to use oil/grease, etc.
Visit
www.FultornArmory.com
then find the M1 Garand pages, and look for the FAQ's
Also, somewhere I have the info about loading the en-bloc clips. I'll look for that, too.
Ah, here it is...This is a 'copy & paste' from page 20 of Springfield Armory's owners manual for the M1 Garand:
1. Load the cartridge clip. Insert a cartridge on the lower left side of the clip so that its base is against the rear wall of
the clip and its extractor groove engages the vertical inner side of the clip. The next cartridge should be inserted
on the opposite side. Continue inserting cartridges until eight have been loaded. The last cartridge will snap in
place and be on the right side. The cartridge being on the right facilitates locking the clip into the rifle by a right
handed person.
If all the cartridges are uniformly seated the clip is ready to load. If some cartridges stick out further then the
others, remover the top cartridge, push the cartridge that is sticking out back until the extractor groove is
engaged and replace the top cartridge.
Caution: Do not try to align the cartridges by hitting the loaded clip against a hard object. This could drive a bullet back into
the case and create a dangerous condition.
Visit
www.FultornArmory.com
then find the M1 Garand pages, and look for the FAQ's
Also, somewhere I have the info about loading the en-bloc clips. I'll look for that, too.
Ah, here it is...This is a 'copy & paste' from page 20 of Springfield Armory's owners manual for the M1 Garand:
1. Load the cartridge clip. Insert a cartridge on the lower left side of the clip so that its base is against the rear wall of
the clip and its extractor groove engages the vertical inner side of the clip. The next cartridge should be inserted
on the opposite side. Continue inserting cartridges until eight have been loaded. The last cartridge will snap in
place and be on the right side. The cartridge being on the right facilitates locking the clip into the rifle by a right
handed person.
If all the cartridges are uniformly seated the clip is ready to load. If some cartridges stick out further then the
others, remover the top cartridge, push the cartridge that is sticking out back until the extractor groove is
engaged and replace the top cartridge.
Caution: Do not try to align the cartridges by hitting the loaded clip against a hard object. This could drive a bullet back into
the case and create a dangerous condition.
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