M1Garand Powder

[savage99fan]

What is the optimum powder for reloading .30-06 165gr BTSP Hornady Interlock bullets for use in an M! Garand. For 20 years I have been using Accurate 2520 with fine results. However, that powder is no longer available at retail, and in Massachusetts gun powder can not be shipped into the state by any of the reloading component warehouses.

 

[cfullgraf]

My main Garand powder is H4895. IMR4895 is an alternate but note the loads are different than H4895 to get the same velocity. I also have used Varget.

Most recommend powders no slower than IMR4064 for the Garand.

Search this forum, the CMP forum and the web on Garand safe loads, there are lots of Garand information out there.

 

[Charlie98]

Chuck hit it... H or IMR4895 are the staples, with IMR4064 as a backup. I would not go slower than IMR4064, and/or heavier than 168grn without an adjustable gas plug. As long as you are not pushing the load to the max, either of the 4895's and your 165grn bullet should be OK with a stock gas system.

I have found H4895 gives more velocity than the same charge of IMR4895... considerably, so work with updated data. Although I use IMR powders, the H version is supposed to be more temperature stable than IMR.

 

[ReloaderFred]

IMR 4895 was developed for the M1 Garand, and it's what I've always used for them. There may be some new whiz bang powder that's just as good, but IMR 4895 does the job, and always has.

Powders for the Garand are limited to IMR 3031 as the fastest, and IMR 4320 as the slowest. The powders between those two are suitable for use in the Garand, and may, or may not, be better than the old standard, but at least provide the proper port pressure.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[cfullgraf]

Duplicate deleted. Fat fingered the wrong button.

 

[mdi]

For the "heavier" bullets I use IMR 4064. For "standard weight" (150-155 gr) IMR 4895 works great...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As said above, IMR4895 was the original M1 powder. I like H4895 better and that's what I use.

AA2520 is the ball powder equivalent for AA2495. AA2495 was developed to mimic the pressure curve generated by IMR4985 so if you like Accurate Arms powders and AA2495 is available you can safely use it. Of course the data is not the same but the results will be similar.

If all Accurate powders are no longer available you will be happy with either H4895 or IMR4895.

Good luck finding a new powder/load for your M1. Welcome to the forum.

 

[lightman]

I use one of the 4895's in mine. I don't have a strong preference but I lean toward IMR.

 

[Toprudder]

I think I read somewhere that 4895 (don't remember if it was IMH or H) was the first powder that Hodgdon sold, as it was military surplus, post war. Makes sense, especially if it was for 30-06.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I think I read somewhere that 4895 (don't remember if it was IMH or H) was the first powder that Hodgdon sold, as it was military surplus, post war. Makes sense, especially if it was for 30-06.

IMR 4831 was the first powder Hodgdon sold, followed by IMR 4895. They got it in 100 pound drums and "smell tested" the powder when they opened the drums. It was then packaged in 1 pound roll top paper bags, like what coffee beans used to come in, for retail sale. I used to buy it for .35 cents a pound when I started loading in 1963. I still have some of the bags and gave some to Hodgdon for their museum. I also still have one pound of the original 4831, still in the paper bag.

The bad powder was dumped in a lake on their property for many years, and then they had to drain the lake and clean up all the residue when the EPA caught up to them much later. They laugh about it now, but it cost a pretty penny to do the clean up. Times change, and so do the rules.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Random 8]

When I looked into a 168 grain load over on CMP forums, where folks live who have forgotten more about the M1 Garand than I will ever learn, IMR 4064 got the most votes for this bullet weight. Varget was also a popular option. Most said the 4895s are serviceable for 168s, but 4064 and Varget get better accuracy at this weight.

I shoot IMR 4064 with both 150 and 165 grain bullets, and get fine accuracy and reliable performance with both. I did try H4895 and my groups and ejection patterns got a little more erratic.

I shoot 46 gr IMR 4064 in Military brass under the Hornady 168HPBT, and have run this load at 600 yards and scored my highest target at 98. It routinely runs into the 90s at 600, as good as my match AR-15 with heavies, so 4064 definatly works for my application.

 

[Slamfire]

I have been partial to IMR 4895, I have shot kegs of the stuff in my M1 Garand and in my M1a's.















The same ammunition shoots very well in this sporter rifle:









Of course, everyone on the web does much better than these targets, but I think I did well, and the cartridges I rolled, shot well, considering I was using irons, and was shooting from a sling position with the Garand (and in competition, I can't remember the number of National Records I have exceeded in practice , just like everyone else )

I am not wedded to IMR 4895, I shot kegs of AA2495. Accurate Arms told me that its pressure curve is a duplicate of IMR 4895, and so, is AA2520. Which explains why it shot so well in your rifle. As for H4895, it is a great powder. It is one of those "extreme powders" which is supposed to protect you if you are operating in a Desert environment, or, with over pressure loads.



Since I cannot verify any of the claims for H4895, I would just say, buy what is cheapest. And, this is very, very important, the actual pressures for M2 ball, with IMR 4895, were around 44,300 psia at 70 F. And 48,000 psia at 165 F. Not that you will shoot any rounds at 165 F, unless you want to die of heat exhaustion. This information is from my paper tech reports I bought at an estate sale. Cartridges for the M1 Garand were not operated at high pressures, you don't need or want 50,000 psia loads for you M1 Garand, you ought to stay below 45,000 psia regardless of what you are using. Therefore, paying extra for extreme powders, does not provide any benefit in this action.

If you research the history of the National Match Cartridges, IMR 4895 was the powder used in the National Match ammunition.



I consider this a good recommendation for this powder, or powder series (IMR 4895/AA2495/H4895) in this mechanism.

 

[Charlie98]

When I looked into a 168 grain load over on CMP forums... ...IMR 4064 got the most votes for this bullet weight.

If I shot 168's in my Garand, I would probably work up with IMR4064. In the .308, the same basic rule applies... I load IMR4895 (or IMR3031...) for the ~150grn bullets, IMR4064 for 168 and 175's.

 

[savage99fan]

Thanks to everyone for your detailed responses; they are very helpful. Based upon all your inputs, I will try a pound of IMR 4895 in my M1 Garand. Now, a related question.... can I use IMR 4895 when reloading for my '03 Springfield? As with my M1, I have exclusively used AA 2520 in loading for the '03, with 46.5 grs. of AA 2520 beneath the same Hornady 165 gr. Interlock BTSP bullet I use the M1. reloads. My M1 reloads carry 45.0 grs of AA2520.
The '03 Springfield is a CMP rifle I bought in 2004. The receiver and barrel were made at the Springfield Armory in 1918, and have matching serial #'s. Unfortunately, the rifle carries the G.I. adjustable, 2,800 yd. ladder sighting system which drives me nuts. In spite of that, I have taken 2 Alabama 8 point whitetail bucks with this rifle. When used for hunting, I always fire off a fouling round before leaving camp because at 100 yds., the next 2-3 rounds are 10 ring status. Regretfully, when the barrel heats up after firing 5-6 rounds, the point of impact begins to rise upward to the right. I have been told this is characteristic of all early '03 Springfields.

 

[Reloadron]

Now, a related question.... can I use IMR 4895 when reloading for my '03 Springfield?

I don't see why not. I use the mentioned powders like IMR 4896 IMR 4064 and AA 2495 in my Garand, 03A3 and 308 loads with bullet weight determining which powder. Those 3 powders being my main "Go To" powders. Anyway I have no reservation using the same ammunition I load for my 30-06 Garand in my 03A3 Remington manufactured rifle.

As to the Garand here is the load data published in the Hornady 9th Edition. You may want to poke around in there.

Ron

Ron

 

[ReloaderFred]

Any powder suitable for loading the .30-06 is suitable for shooting through an '03 Springfield rifle, since it's basically just a bolt action rifle placed into a military stock.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Slamfire]

Thanks to everyone for your detailed responses; they are very helpful. Based upon all your inputs, I will try a pound of IMR 4895 in my M1 Garand. Now, a related question.... can I use IMR 4895 when reloading for my '03 Springfield? As with my M1, I have exclusively used AA 2520 in loading for the '03, with 46.5 grs. of AA 2520 beneath the same Hornady 165 gr. Interlock BTSP bullet I use the M1. reloads. My M1 reloads carry 45.0 grs of AA2520.
The '03 Springfield is a CMP rifle I bought in 2004. The receiver and barrel were made at the Springfield Armory in 1918, and have matching serial #'s. Unfortunately, the rifle carries the G.I. adjustable, 2,800 yd. ladder sighting system which drives me nuts. In spite of that, I have taken 2 Alabama 8 point whitetail bucks with this rifle. When used for hunting, I always fire off a fouling round before leaving camp because at 100 yds., the next 2-3 rounds are 10 ring status. Regretfully, when the barrel heats up after firing 5-6 rounds, the point of impact begins to rise upward to the right. I have been told this is characteristic of all early '03 Springfields.

As long as the receiver is in the double heat treat range you can fire standard pressure ammunition in your 03. I have shot lots of rounds through these older 03's









This was a favorite:



You can fire standard commercial ammunition in the 03, something I do not recommend for a Garand. The Garand has port pressures issues, and if the ammunition does not state it is compatible for a Garand, don't use it. As has been mentioned, the 03 is a bolt rifle. During WW2 and mostly after, what Springfields that were still in inventory were used with the same ammunition as what was issued for Garands.

I knew a former AMU shooter, he was in the Garand era. When he had his hardship tour in Korea, there was a M1903 in the Arms Room. And, he had it in his own hands when North Koreans were roaming around in the DMZ. No matter how much he pleaded with the Officer's there, they would not let him shoot any of the North Koreans. Bud was a bit upset as he wanted to be the last guy to kill someone with an 03. I understand his frustration, but there were 03's in Vietnam and probably someone got whacked with one. And it might have been a Grunt as ARVN was the VC's second best supplier of weapons.

As for your wandering zero. Have you bedded your action in the stock? Every, and I mean every complete 03 (and A3) I have handled, the rear tang of the action has crushed the stock wood, the action then bows, the barrel goes up. If the barrel is touching the top of the upper band, your bedding is shot. What I have done is drill a big hole through the rear tang hole, and fill that with Devcon, or Tex Marine epoxy. I will do that first before bedding the front action lug. I try to achieve a five pound lift on the end of the barrel. The barrel should be resting on the tip of the stock and it should take about five pounds to lift it.

Anyway, that is one guess. If the bedding is shot, and the barrel is binding in weird ways, then as you heat the thing up, it will change zero. It could also be due to barrel straightening, which induces stresses in the barrel. Or, your rifling is really worn. I took off a worn 1918 barrel on my favorite 03 and installed a brand new HS barrel. But that was before the insane price rises in original actions and barrels. I did get to shoot the thing and it shoots well, so I got to shoot my rifle, and I don't care if all the collectors cry at my estate sale about what I did to that rifle. It won't be the only one either. I modified a bunch of military rifles to make them shoot better groups.

 

[25-5]

I use both 4895's, but I like Varget as well. Use it in both M1 Garand & M1A NM.

 

[Random 8]

I find Garand safe loads to be very pleasing to shoot in my M1917 sported rifle. I shoot a 150 grain hunting bullet over 47gr IMR 4064. I've found the effects on whitetail to be similar to .300Sav or .308 loads, with minimal recoil and fine accuracy. Such a load would absolutely be appropriate in your Sprg. I think you will find a similar experience shooting your Garand loads in the Springfield. The '06 as loaded to full power is a bit over powered for deer sized game except at extreme range IMHO, and toning it down just a touch is nice on your shoulder and the butcher.