zxcvbob
Member
I think maybe folks are pretending to take that vid seriously just to get a rise outta ya. 
Making Percussion Caps
- Thread starter ThomasT
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.44walkersabot
member
Sugar will greatly enhance any explosive and you can take plain ol' aspirin tablets and make all the Picric Acid your little heart desires. One drop of mercury fulminate sealed up inside of the 'case' make's a damn fine percussion cap...Okay...
OP
OP
ThomasT
Member
ZXCVBOB, there is a reason i didn't waste whiskey or flour or ketchup actually trying this myself. You gotta' figure out whos spoofing who here.
MCgunner
Member
3 roll cap centers are MORE reliable for me on my Old Army and .31 Remington replicas than Fiocchi No. 11s. However, there just ain't enough fire to turn the corner in my Hawken. It seems to be quite a HOT fire, just not a very long flame front. I think an inline percussion would be a way different story. I had thought about just drilling a number 11 nipple out a little so that I could prime it with powder, but haven't done that to test. If the powder is close enough to the nipple, I've found the roll caps very reliable, though, more reliable than store bought.
Another percussion explosive, antimony pentasulfide. I tried cutting the heads off matches, but could never get it to work.
Another percussion explosive, antimony pentasulfide. I tried cutting the heads off matches, but could never get it to work.
sundance44s
Member
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- Feb 6, 2006
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- 1,473
Think I`ll sip my wiskey and buy my caps ..lol
.44walkersabot
member
Sundance, I think you have a good idea there..
rusty bubbles
Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2007
- Messages
- 92
Potassium chorate- if I remember - in a twist of paper, will explode, if struck with a hammer.I do remember that mxed with sulphur and a little charcoal -ala gunpowder,It really explodes when struck- I still have a scar on my left hand to prove it! I have used red match heads, live;cut down, empty .22 cases; and the plastic ring caps for toy guns. all worked for me-
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
Relevant but not BP.
I'm puzzled by your not finding strike-anywhere matches. They're available around here in the picnic section of every supermarket I've been in.
Just for the sake of doing it, many years ago I re-loaded large pistol primers with matchheads. I popped them out of the cases, cleaned them up, made a punch to flatten them out, and annealed them by quenching from red heat. Some of the anvils were distorted, and were not used. I tried this experiment out with pistol primers since they do not distort much from internal pressures when fired. The primers had the three-legged anvil.
I was very careful about not getting match heads together when removing the percussive tips of the matches. I'd cut one off carefully (had about 20% ignite during this operation), and put it in a small pile about four feet away. When I got ten or twelve of them, I'd put them in a plastic vial, only ten or so per vial. I also had a big fire extinguisher handy.
When ready, I took a matchead, placed it on a damp paper towel for a couple of minutes, placed it in the primer, pressed it down with the same punch I used to flatted the ding out of the primer, and set the anvil back in. Some of the anvils were a little loose, so I would remove it and try another. This anvil-setting operation was kind of tricky, since you've got to let the anvil protrude slightly.
You will notice that commercial primers are made so that the anvil sticks out slightly, and on the act of repriming the cartridge, the protruding anvil legs press the anvil head into the pellet of priming compound so the pellet is sort of pre-stressed. This enhances the sensitivity and reliability. I had been concerned that the priming operation would break up the dry matchhead pellet on loading them into cases, but this "prestressing" seemed to have little effect --but see note below about the two light loads.
I then let them dry, keeping them a safe distance apart, and loaded them into resized .45 ACP Cases.
I chose to do this with the .45 because it is easy to clean the corrosives out of it, and I could replace the NM barrel with the original barrel for the test, so I wouldn't screw up the NM barrel.
I re-loaded, if I recall correctly, something like 4 grains of Unique into the case and seated 230 grain bullets on top of them.
I had no misfires in ten rounds that I loaded, but the light-ish load of Unique failed to cycle the slide twice. I do not know if this was due to poor ignition or just a lighter individual load (the former is more likely.) None stuck in the barrel, as one might expect from light loads.
This is a delicate and touchy operation, but since I had had extensive training in chemistry, I knew what to do to prevent injury -- gloves, welder's face maske, glasses under that, etc. I also was prudent about keeping one match head away from the others until I put them in the plastic vials.
After firing the ten I'd loaded, I decided this was a reasonably viable technique for re-manufacturing primers, but subject to considerable enhancement, and not suitable for a "home production line."
I destroyed all the other matchheads by the simple expedient of soaking them in water and flushing them down the john.
I only did it because I am a firm believer that firearms technology should not reside solely in the hands of the government and the police.
I would suggest, however, that this not be attempted by anyone. I am reporting it to deter experimentation on the theory that since I did it, you don't have to.
Besides, this was all done many decades ago when I was young and foolish and immortal... whereas now I am old and foolish and not so immortal anymore.
-----------
Hatcher (Hatcher's Notebook, no page reference available) reports an incident where a young man was carrying a bucket of loose primers from the drying house to the ammunition assembly area at one of the arsenals, shaking it in time with his walking. The bucket exploded, killing the boy instantly.
The moral of the story is to never let primers get together in bulk, although as packed in the grooved containers you buy them in they are almost perfectly safe from mass detonation, even from fires.
I'm puzzled by your not finding strike-anywhere matches. They're available around here in the picnic section of every supermarket I've been in.
Just for the sake of doing it, many years ago I re-loaded large pistol primers with matchheads. I popped them out of the cases, cleaned them up, made a punch to flatten them out, and annealed them by quenching from red heat. Some of the anvils were distorted, and were not used. I tried this experiment out with pistol primers since they do not distort much from internal pressures when fired. The primers had the three-legged anvil.
I was very careful about not getting match heads together when removing the percussive tips of the matches. I'd cut one off carefully (had about 20% ignite during this operation), and put it in a small pile about four feet away. When I got ten or twelve of them, I'd put them in a plastic vial, only ten or so per vial. I also had a big fire extinguisher handy.
When ready, I took a matchead, placed it on a damp paper towel for a couple of minutes, placed it in the primer, pressed it down with the same punch I used to flatted the ding out of the primer, and set the anvil back in. Some of the anvils were a little loose, so I would remove it and try another. This anvil-setting operation was kind of tricky, since you've got to let the anvil protrude slightly.
You will notice that commercial primers are made so that the anvil sticks out slightly, and on the act of repriming the cartridge, the protruding anvil legs press the anvil head into the pellet of priming compound so the pellet is sort of pre-stressed. This enhances the sensitivity and reliability. I had been concerned that the priming operation would break up the dry matchhead pellet on loading them into cases, but this "prestressing" seemed to have little effect --but see note below about the two light loads.
I then let them dry, keeping them a safe distance apart, and loaded them into resized .45 ACP Cases.
I chose to do this with the .45 because it is easy to clean the corrosives out of it, and I could replace the NM barrel with the original barrel for the test, so I wouldn't screw up the NM barrel.
I re-loaded, if I recall correctly, something like 4 grains of Unique into the case and seated 230 grain bullets on top of them.
I had no misfires in ten rounds that I loaded, but the light-ish load of Unique failed to cycle the slide twice. I do not know if this was due to poor ignition or just a lighter individual load (the former is more likely.) None stuck in the barrel, as one might expect from light loads.
This is a delicate and touchy operation, but since I had had extensive training in chemistry, I knew what to do to prevent injury -- gloves, welder's face maske, glasses under that, etc. I also was prudent about keeping one match head away from the others until I put them in the plastic vials.
After firing the ten I'd loaded, I decided this was a reasonably viable technique for re-manufacturing primers, but subject to considerable enhancement, and not suitable for a "home production line."
I destroyed all the other matchheads by the simple expedient of soaking them in water and flushing them down the john.
I only did it because I am a firm believer that firearms technology should not reside solely in the hands of the government and the police.
I would suggest, however, that this not be attempted by anyone. I am reporting it to deter experimentation on the theory that since I did it, you don't have to.
Besides, this was all done many decades ago when I was young and foolish and immortal... whereas now I am old and foolish and not so immortal anymore.
-----------
Hatcher (Hatcher's Notebook, no page reference available) reports an incident where a young man was carrying a bucket of loose primers from the drying house to the ammunition assembly area at one of the arsenals, shaking it in time with his walking. The bucket exploded, killing the boy instantly.
The moral of the story is to never let primers get together in bulk, although as packed in the grooved containers you buy them in they are almost perfectly safe from mass detonation, even from fires.
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Roswell 1847
member
Fulminate of Mercury is pretty easy to make if you have Mercury and Nitric Acid and Pure grain alcohol to precipitate the flakes. Its safe to handle until the flakes dry out and crystalyse.
Personally I would not try it unless I had some dippers with very long handles, like long enough to reach into the next room.
Personally I would not try it unless I had some dippers with very long handles, like long enough to reach into the next room.
.44walkersabot
member
Mr. Roswell, I meant making and using it just as an emergency situation. Like the Picric Acid, (usually the compound found inside of a blasting cap and highly sensitive) just in a bad emergency where you were out of everything and had to do something..
Roswell 1847
member
The following ideas are Perhaps not useful in an unmodified weapon, but they are doable.
First off, the rapid compression of air produces heat, and this principle has already been used by the Daisy caseless .22 rifle.
A powerful spring powered piston drives forwards heating the air which ignites the propellent.
Then we have electric ignition.
A casing could be modified to allow current to run to a swatch of steel wool in the bottom of the case , the steel wool heats rapidly and ignites the charge.
An insulated electrode could emerge from the primer pocket to touch a contact in the bolt face while the brass casing itself grounds to the chamber wall or a copper insert in the chamber wall. Battery packs could be held in the stock.
PS
Sugar and bird droppings, when soaked with gasoline ignite within ten seconds. Its a Special Forces technique for time delay incendiary devices.
First off, the rapid compression of air produces heat, and this principle has already been used by the Daisy caseless .22 rifle.
A powerful spring powered piston drives forwards heating the air which ignites the propellent.
Then we have electric ignition.
A casing could be modified to allow current to run to a swatch of steel wool in the bottom of the case , the steel wool heats rapidly and ignites the charge.
An insulated electrode could emerge from the primer pocket to touch a contact in the bolt face while the brass casing itself grounds to the chamber wall or a copper insert in the chamber wall. Battery packs could be held in the stock.
PS
Sugar and bird droppings, when soaked with gasoline ignite within ten seconds. Its a Special Forces technique for time delay incendiary devices.
MCgunner
Member
I got no problem with making my own caps if necessity demands. Hell, I'll buy the equipment and make my own powder if forced to. The gov'ment has hinted at limiting ammo AND primers before. I've considered a flint lock as an alternative survival tool and those new electric ignition guns have merit for such. But, a simple, cheap inline with percussion caps made with roll cap centers or perhaps something else is also very appealing for such and I know it works.
No, it takes time to make caps and most times I'd rather just buy a few tins. However, it's a good tool to have in case of what I consider the inevitable, the second amendment gets trashed and we go under a dictatorial form of government. Between the Obamas and the Clintons and the Osamas and the Amadenajads out there, I don't know that freedom will last forever, let alone just the second amendment. Our society is increasingly urban which means the dumbing down and socialization of society IMHO. People more removed from reality easily fall prey to socialist utopian thought. Besides, most people are too lazy and selfish to stick up for an esoteric ideal like "freedom". It's always good to think of the unthinkable IMHO, because it more than likely will come true. Hate to be a doomsayer and I tend to be an optimist when I can, but things are lookin' bleak I'm afraid.
No, it takes time to make caps and most times I'd rather just buy a few tins. However, it's a good tool to have in case of what I consider the inevitable, the second amendment gets trashed and we go under a dictatorial form of government. Between the Obamas and the Clintons and the Osamas and the Amadenajads out there, I don't know that freedom will last forever, let alone just the second amendment. Our society is increasingly urban which means the dumbing down and socialization of society IMHO. People more removed from reality easily fall prey to socialist utopian thought. Besides, most people are too lazy and selfish to stick up for an esoteric ideal like "freedom".
It's always good to think of the unthinkable IMHO, because it more than likely will come true. Hate to be a doomsayer and I tend to be an optimist when I can, but things are lookin' bleak I'm afraid.scrat
Member
What do you guys think of those reloadable primers. There is a kit the cabelas sells. Where you can reload blackpowder primers using small pistol primers.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat20819&rid=&indexId=cat20819&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=3&parentType=index&parentId=cat20819&id=0034484
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat20819&rid=&indexId=cat20819&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=3&parentType=index&parentId=cat20819&id=0034484
OP
OP
ThomasT
Member
Sugar and bird droppings, when soaked with gasoline ignite within ten seconds. Its a Special Forces technique for time delay incendiary devices.
I hope this ain't a joke cause its one of those things i've gotta try.
If you can get #11 caps for $2.50 a tin i would buy every one they had if it were me.
I hope this ain't a joke cause its one of those things i've gotta try.
If you can get #11 caps for $2.50 a tin i would buy every one they had if it were me.
.44walkersabot
member
I can tell you something else that's not a joke. The white part of a bird dropping is the best tooth ache medicine in the world. Just take some of the white part and put it on the sore tooth. It will instantly (INSTANTLY) stop hurting. That's the truth according to Uncle Sam. (I'vd never tried it)
I realize this has nothing to do with a firearm, but it crossed my mind and I wanted to get it in there...Okay...
I realize this has nothing to do with a firearm, but it crossed my mind and I wanted to get it in there...Okay...
.44walkersabot
member
Is there any trick to pinching the #11's? I'vd never tried it and I don't want set it off and tear up my fingers. I finger push my caps if that make's any sort of difference here. Thanks...Okay...
P.S. And I just thought,..I don't want to break the seal inside of the cap either...Okay...
P.S. And I just thought,..I don't want to break the seal inside of the cap either...Okay...
I've never heard of anyone setting off a percussion cap by pinching it on a nipple. They require an impact load (ie, shock load, defined as a load time history with a fast rise to it's maximum value) to detonate, and you cannot (as in physically impossible) deliver an impact load with your fingers.
Pinching is used to set a cap that is slightly too large for the nipple. If the cap is slightly too small a wooden dowel is helpful; use it to push the cap further onto the nipple. Tapping the cap with the dowel is not recommended...
Pinching is used to set a cap that is slightly too large for the nipple. If the cap is slightly too small a wooden dowel is helpful; use it to push the cap further onto the nipple. Tapping the cap with the dowel is not recommended...
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RedLion
Member
I don't have any experience with making percusion caps, but i would be very careful with making them. I would also advise not using mercury fulminate because it is very sensitive and toxic. I would try something else like lead Azide.
.44walkersabot
member
Mr. MyKeal, thanks.
Yeah, I can see where tapping on it would not be recommended!!
What is lead azide? Do you have time to tell me about it?...Okay...
Or Red Lion you could tell me to. Thanks...Okay...
Never mind I'm gonna look it up on the computer. I don't care anything about it, I just want to see what it is.
Yeah, I can see where tapping on it would not be recommended!!
What is lead azide? Do you have time to tell me about it?...Okay...
Or Red Lion you could tell me to. Thanks...Okay...
Never mind I'm gonna look it up on the computer. I don't care anything about it, I just want to see what it is.
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