Man killed trying to stop theft, police say

[Jeff White]

Remember, this is the Strategies and Tactics Forum. If all you have to say is something to the effect of; "I hope the shooter gets what's coming to him," don't click reply. We all hope the shooter gets whats coming to him. Let's keep the discussion on topic for this forum.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...10B4D0021759F716862572BE000BF25C?OpenDocument

Man killed trying to stop theft, police say
By Patrick M. O'Connell
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
04/15/2007

ST. LOUIS — A 36-year-old St. Louis man was killed early Saturday morning as he tried to prevent a thief from stealing his car, police and his wife said.

Darrell Boothe, a father of three teens, was shot once about 5 a.m. outside his home in the 1900 block of Utah Street, said his wife, Marie. Darrell Boothe heard the car horn on his Cadillac DeVille sedan, grabbed a pair of sweat pants and ran outside, Marie Boothe said.

"I heard my husband say, 'Stop, that's my car!' Boothe said. "And then I heard, 'pow.' Then I heard him say, 'I've been shot, I've been shot.'"

After the shooting, Darrell Boothe stumbled onto the stoop of his home. Police and paramedics were quickly on the scene, but Boothe died before he could be taken to a hospital, Marie Boothe said.

Police did not release any information about suspects Saturday afternoon. Marie Boothe said the family has not had any problems with car vandalism or theft and her block generally is quiet. She did not see anyone outside after her husband was shot.

"He was a hard-working man, and he loved his family," Boothe said. "He always had a smile on his face, and he would help anybody."

Darrell Boothe was a truck driver who played and watched football, she said.

[email protected] | 314-863-2821

 

[glockman19]

While I believe that defense of personal property outside of the home is inappropriate, this is a story that can be seen from the other side. If Mr. Boothe had a gun would it have saved his life IMHO the answer is NO. Who in their right mind would shoot the guy you're steeling from? YES I hope the perp get's caught and goes to jail for life. Who wouldn't.

Now, to address strategy & tactics. What could he Mr. Boothe have done? Call the police? Stay inside? again, If someone is stealing my car I'd just call the police. It's insured. It's only a car. My life is NOT worth it. However, if the car were in the garage it's a different story. Once the door, window is breached Self Defense is the priority.

Sad story but...What does this have to do with Strategy & Tactics? It appears there was no strategy or tactics on Mr. Boothe's part. and it got him killed. Over a car?

 

[JCF]

History has shown that many, many people on this forum have automobiles, lawn mowers, garden gnomes, etc., worth dying for.

I personally do not.

 

[george29]

God help me but it sure sounds like it could just have easily been an assisination hiding behind a car theft smokescreen. The wife heard so much and all at 5am yet didn't run with her husband to actually see what was going on ? Hmmm, and since when do thieves STATISTICALLY work their trade, not usually 5am when their is already people up and about. That's the power of the media though, we judge by little or no info, me included.

 

[Soybomb]

Poor guy, I feel terrible for his wife and boys.

glockman19 points out the lesson I see it in right away, a gun isn't a magic charm that will keep you safe from criminals. It certainly sounds like the act of confronting the man was all it took and it may not have mattered or not if the cars owner was armed.

since when do thieves STATISTICALLY work their trade, not usually 5am when their is already people up and about.

I'm not sure what its like there, but I'm usually up at 5am and its still quite dark here at 5am.

 

[Jeff White]

The car theft rings in St Louis are very violent and often get into shootouts with the police. It would be hard to live in St Louis and listen to the news every couple days and not be aware of that. In this case, discretion was probably the better part of valor.

The lesson I think we should take from this? Don't let your emotions take you into a situation you're not sure you can handle.

Jeff

 

[30 cal slob]

i guess one should take nothing for granted.

not every car thief is going to be armed, but one should approach all of them as if they were.

is the lesson here to just dial 911 and try to be a good witness?

 

[Joe Demko]

Examine the possible outcomes if one were in a similar situation and compare to the value of the car:

1) Thief is deterred and leaves. You win.
2) You apprehend thief and turn him over to the police. You win.
3) You shoot the thief to death and spend more than the value of the car in legal fees but eventually no charges are filed. Win? Lose?
4) You shoot the thief, lose the legal battle, and find yourself facing fines and time behind bars. You lose.
5) The thief shoots you dead. You lose.
6) The thief wounds you, you lose time from work and amass medical bills greater than the value of the car. You lose.
7) You stay inside, the thief takes the car, and you must pay the insurance deductable. Win? Lose?

Depending on what the thieves are like in your area, some of these are more likely than others. For my part, I value my life and health more than I do a Suzuki Aerio. I believe I would turn on the outside floodlights and snap a picture or two from inside the house. I would also have my wife on the phone giving the local law a ding-a-ling. Your reactions may vary, of course, as it was long ago established that stealing some people's car is the same as stealing years of their lives.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Louisiana allows the use of lethal force to protect your property, including your car.

I wonder how the crime stats of the St Louis compare with LA? Anybody?

 

[BigO01]

The car theft rings in St Louis are very violent and often get into shootouts with the police. It would be hard to live in St Louis and listen to the news every couple days and not be aware of that. In this case, discretion was probably the better part of valor.

The lesson I think we should take from this? Don't let your emotions take you into a situation you're not sure you can handle.

Jeff

Well Jeff I live in St. Louis County and watch the local news fairly regularly and this is news to me .

I think the lesson here is either call the police and stay inside or have something more substantial in your hand than your overactive imagination when confronting a felon .

"I heard my husband say, 'Stop, that's my car!' Boothe said. "And then I heard, 'pow.' Then I heard him say, 'I've been shot, I've been shot.'"

I wouldn't say yelling 'Stop, that's my car!' was much of an effort to stop the guy and hardly a reason to kill him and "I suppose it is a natural reaction really" , other than the fact that the thief has proven to be a violent sociopath . This just as easily could have been an old lady sticking her head out of the window and getting killed for yelling at him .

All in all I would say this is a good reason to be able to shoot thieves on sight as you never know they may not let you or the next victim live if caught in the act of their crime .

 

[Dave P]

"While I believe that defense of personal property outside of the home is inappropriate, " I don't understand this sentiment. Are we to just let the BG's take what they want with no intervention at all? - I think not.

We have many ways to confront the thief, and having a gun (or any weapon) is not a requirement: Yell at the guy. Punch his lights out. Yell at him from a safe place. Sic your dog on him. Call the po-po. Swing a big stick at his nose.

 

[DawgFvr]

This is why I practice with my M1 Garand. Of course, I'd have to replace the car window and replace the blood stained carpet. Actually, Joe Demko breaks it down for us...in retrospect, no material possession is worth a loved one's life (especially an American made car...eh?). Still...I'd love to touch a 30.06 off on this slug.

 

[rmurfster]

“[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ... Horrid mischief would ensue were [the law-abiding] deprived the use of them.”
- Thomas Paine

“Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would.”
- John Adams, Boston Gazette, Sept. 5, 1763

“Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. These are evident branches of, rather than deductions from, the duty of self-preservation, commonly called the first law of nature.”
- Samuel Adams, The Rights of The Colonists, November 20, 1772



​

 

[Technosavant]

Well Jeff I live in St. Louis County and watch the local news fairly regularly and this is news to me .

I live in St. Charles County, and it isn't news to me. Sure, it isn't daily stuff, but some of these car theft rings are rather prolific, and some are quite violent. Even if they aren't shooting at cops, they do shoot at the car owners (I believe somebody in Soulard was fired at a couple months back).

I think the lesson here is either call the police and stay inside or have something more substantial in your hand than your overactive imagination when confronting a felon .

I think you are correct here.

Basically, the moment the guy is in your car with the engine running, it's game over, the car is a goner. He can run you over easier than you can shoot him (and in the STL area, they WILL run you over). He can just drive off, putting you in the position of letting it go or firing at a retreating suspect (not generally recommended). The best advice I can recommend is to lock you car, do not leave keys in it, and keep up the insurance. If you can't afford insurance and live in a high theft area, then the deck is stacked against you. Installing some sort of kill switch would be about the only option.

It seems the St. Louis city police have finally made car thefts a priority and things are improving, but many of the thieves are underage (there were rings of people using 14 and 15 year olds to actually drive the car away- horrific chases and wrecks resulted), and it depends on judges doing something other than slapping them on the wrist.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Strategy & Tactics vs Legal

From a purely tactical point of view, if you're going out to interdict, you need to be armed, and you need to be prepared to shoot.

Strategically, a kill switch or other device. Possibly some other means to render the car so hard to steal that it's not worth the effort. Unfortunately, this would also mean significant inconvenience to the owner.

The primary problem is trying to bend your tactics around the legal barriers.

If you're not allowed to shoot, then some strategic means of immobilizing the car is needed.

If defending property with deadly force is PERMITTED, then I recommend a good carbine.

If defending property is prohibited, then intervening personally -- even while carrying a weapon (in case the perp gets rough) -- would require that you have some non-conventional practice under your belt. You can pretty much count on the bad guy having practiced for his expected scenarios. If you haven't practiced for this, then you really are taking your life in your hands going out to interdict. If you MUST intervene (make up your own reason), then I still recommend a carbine in case the perp escalates.

Who to call

Unhappily, 9-1-1 won't make a difference. Still, you need to have them on the line.

Better, three-way them with your attorney (anybody know how to speed-dial into a three-way?).


If you're not going to be armed, just endure the loss.

If you're going to be armed, be trained. If you're not going to be trained, see above.

If you're going to be armed and trained, have your attorney on speed-dial.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

Strategy wise I would never go outside to confront a foe I KNEW was there without the lethal of my firepower. Sweatpants wouldnt have been the first thing I would have grabbed.

 

[never_retreat]

If I lived where it was legal to shoot for the crime at hand I would, from a distance of a few feet (maybe w/ cover) shoot a tire first. When the perp jumps he will either obey my command to lay down or get shot instantly if he shows a weapon. But that’s just me. Can't get a way with a flat. And if he does have a weapon this will be the time when he will show it.

 

[RP86]

History has shown that many, many people on this forum have automobiles, lawn mowers, garden gnomes, etc., worth dying for.

I personally do not.

+1

 

[roo_ster]

History has shown that many, many people on this forum have automobiles, lawn mowers, garden gnomes, etc., worth killing for.

There, fixed it for you. Such is supported by some states' laws.

In OP, I would have let my fingers do the walking to 9, 1, and 1. My #1 priority would be to keep my family safe. No way I would run out where there is no cover.

Get inside the house, however, and different rules would apply.

 

[bruss01]

Noise outside... you look out the bedroom window and see someone hotwiring your car!

Thinking quickly, you grab your nearby scoped hunting rifle. You lean out the bedroom window, take careful aim... pull the trigger...

... and shoot out your car's right front tire.

I'll bet that hoodlum will lose interest real fast.

Then call 911 and report the attempted theft. And explain why you discharged a firearm within city limits. Hopefully they will be understanding.

You're out $70 for a new tire, but you don't have to clean any blood off the dash and upholstery nor file an insurance claim, the cops get something to do for a couple hours, and the hoodlum gets a wake up call that maybe a life of crime isn't in his best interests. Sounds like win-win to me.

<edited to add> sorry, never_retreat beat me to the punch!

 

[Joe Demko]

That sounds incredibly ill-advised on any number of levels. You'll have other, more deeply fraught with legal peril, questions to answer than why you discharged a firearm within city limits.

 

[Trope]

1) don't leave valuables in the vehicle.
2) obtain theft insurance.
3) install an alarm with some kind of demobilizer, preferably a stealth one.
4) install lighting for vehicle that cannot be put in garage.

If these tactics prevent me from confronting a thief in the middle of the night, then they're well worth it.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

It seems like without a way to assess the threat, the clock running fast on what you have time to do, and me being just awakened, the best thing to do is call the Police and report the theft and last location/direction.
No need to wind up dead over a car.

Besides, I've vowed to never spend 30-40k on a vehicle again. All my vehicles are usually something I can get for $400-$1000.

 

[msimonds]

All I can say about this is that I feel terrible for the wife and children. What a tragedy!