saiga308
Member
heres some east German made ones
https://gundigest.com/reviews/early-german-bolt-action-sporters-set-standard
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Agreed.
Only available in Germany/France by two companies and Eastern Europe, I would have to travel there to get it and don’t fancy getting back into the UK with ammo even though it’s on my certificate, border force gets very twitchy with anything firearms related.
Thank you that’s interesting, I did notice a mark on the barrel which is a star above a H which could well be a Haenel trademark. It’s just in front of “FLUSSTAHL KRUPP ESSEN” marking.
Shanghai McCoy
Member
Unfortunate...
Question, does the rifle have a full length stock ?
doubleh
Member
Butter gal is a new name to me as all I've even seen referred to that style bolt handle as butter knife. No matter, that's a very nice rifle.
Carl N. Brown
Member
8x57 Mauser nicht, 8x60 Mauser ja. I suspect the post-WWI German authorities were like the post-revolution Mexican authorities: 9mm Parabellum no, .380ACP y .38 Super si.
Insurgents could with use military-caliber civilian arms with ammo stolen in bulk from military/police arsenals. So the answer was no civilian arms in military calibers.
Insurgents could with use military-caliber civilian arms with ammo stolen in bulk from military/police arsenals. So the answer was no civilian arms in military calibers.
Jim Watson
Member
Well, in Germany, it was 7.65/.30 Luger. An easy conversion.
DocRock
member
In Germany, these were restrictions imposed by the allies under the Treaty of Versailles to limit the size of the German military. It provided an excellent study in human ingenuity.
Carl N. Brown
Member
^ Doc Rock is right. (I had gotten the misconception it was the result of post-wwi German Wiemar Republic gun laws due to street fights between rival radical groups). I sit corrected.
Wikipedia on the 8x60mm S:
History
After World War I, the Allied forces signed the Treaty of Versailles. This Treaty prohibited the use of standard military weapons and ammunition by Germany. However, civilian hunters didn't want to give up on this great round, so a new cartridge was designed by the German arms manufacturer Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM). Extending the 7.92×57mm Mauser cartridge case by 3 mm (2 mm of lengthened body plus 1 mm of lengthened neck) created the 8×60mm S. The 8×60mm S bullet diameter is 8.22 mm (.323 in) as found in the 8×57mm IS.
The new cartridge used the same bullet and therefore only the chamber of the rifle had to be modified (reamed out by 2 mm plus 1 mm of neck extension) to accommodate the slightly longer case. This operation was easily performed on Gewehr 98 and Karabiner 98k rifles. It also meant that owners of rifles so re-chambered could not then be used as an "ad hoc" reserve to the German Army (that was one of the issues of concern at Versailles of reserves of male civilians disguised as rifle club members with their own privately owned rifles - being trained as reinforcements in time of war as the German Army was by that Treaty limited not only to 100,000 men but also to the number of rifles it could possess) as standard military ammunition could not now be safely fired in rifles so converted.
Sources cited include Rheinisch-Westfälische Sprengstoffwerke (RWS) and Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms (C.I.P.)
Wikipedia on the 8x60mm S:
History
After World War I, the Allied forces signed the Treaty of Versailles. This Treaty prohibited the use of standard military weapons and ammunition by Germany. However, civilian hunters didn't want to give up on this great round, so a new cartridge was designed by the German arms manufacturer Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM). Extending the 7.92×57mm Mauser cartridge case by 3 mm (2 mm of lengthened body plus 1 mm of lengthened neck) created the 8×60mm S. The 8×60mm S bullet diameter is 8.22 mm (.323 in) as found in the 8×57mm IS.
The new cartridge used the same bullet and therefore only the chamber of the rifle had to be modified (reamed out by 2 mm plus 1 mm of neck extension) to accommodate the slightly longer case. This operation was easily performed on Gewehr 98 and Karabiner 98k rifles. It also meant that owners of rifles so re-chambered could not then be used as an "ad hoc" reserve to the German Army (that was one of the issues of concern at Versailles of reserves of male civilians disguised as rifle club members with their own privately owned rifles - being trained as reinforcements in time of war as the German Army was by that Treaty limited not only to 100,000 men but also to the number of rifles it could possess) as standard military ammunition could not now be safely fired in rifles so converted.
Sources cited include Rheinisch-Westfälische Sprengstoffwerke (RWS) and Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms (C.I.P.)
Jim Watson
Member
I understand there was also a treaty requirement to limit rifle sighting to 300 yards.
I have not seen a Mauser with the sight travel blocked but have heard that they exist.
I have not seen a Mauser with the sight travel blocked but have heard that they exist.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Another fairly common interwar repurposing of surplus military actions was the Wehrmannsgewehr in 8.15x46R. Usually this involved scrubbing the receiver of all military marks, installing a new barrel with the usual military length, contour and sights, altering the boltface and extractor and installing a wooden plug into the magazine to use as a single shot. When the Lange Visier rear sight was retained, it was common to overstamp the range markings for this cartridge at 100 and 175 meters.
A couple years back I bought a very nice duffel-cut vet bringback Wehrmann that was almost certainly an arsenal reworked military rifle. I suspect the original bolt was lost and a standard K98k substituted, as Wehrmann's typically kept their original straight handled bolts with modifications to the bolt face. The thing's a tack-driver.
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Jim Watson
Member
I have only seen one of those locally.
Also a Forester's Rifle, a very plain half stock sporter in 8.15x46R.
I have pictures of the scratch built Wehrmannsgewehr with solid bottom receiver. I bet a lot of those were looted and used for varmint rifles.
Also a Forester's Rifle, a very plain half stock sporter in 8.15x46R.
I have pictures of the scratch built Wehrmannsgewehr with solid bottom receiver. I bet a lot of those were looted and used for varmint rifles.
Yes.
doubleh
Member
It's strange how tastes change over time. Now bolt handles have to resemble heavy duty lug wrenches even if they are just 22 rimfires.
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