Mental Health arguments

[michaelbsc]

The focus should be on finding and stopping the deranged people before they explode, not banning the tools they use. You can ban one potential weapon. They'll just select another one.

This is exactly true. And we now own this responsibility, lock, stock, and barrel. Like it or not.

A lot of people say, correctly, that it is not a gun problem, it is a mental health issue. But irrespective of that, society is now going to make it the gun owners's problem. So we're either going to step up to the plate and accept it, or we're going to get regulated away. Period, no other options.

IT IS OURS!

Wayne Lapierre had better be at the desks of the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychiatric Nurses Association, the National Institute of Mental Health, and a half dozen other places I can't even think of right now saying, "American gun owners can sway billions of dollars from Congress. What do you need to diagnose and treat early onset mental illness. We are your new sponsors."

Do not believe for one second that the Secretaries and Under-Secretaries of those organizations are not just as political as the Pentagon. They've just always had different sponsors. Dollars are dollars. They'll take ours and learn to love us.


I think the White House petitions are a little stupid, but they're getting a lot of attention. The "anti gun control" petitions that I've seen are all begging. They don't offer any positive steps. We have to take ownership. So I just created one that proposes a $2 tax at retail sale per gun to find mental health.

It's here. http://wh.gov/nTna

You can't search it yet because it's too new. If you don't like this idea, propose something better. But I'm telling you that the gun community had better be the driving force on the solution.

 

[kalel33]

A lot of people say, correctly, that it is not a gun problem, it is a mental health issue.

You can thank President Reagan for that when he shut down all the mental hospitals and cut funding for mental health treatment. Reagan's choices are what has lead us to the position we are in now. Now we just have to fix the screw up.

 

[michaelbsc]

You can thank President Reagan for that when he shut down all the mental hospitals and cut funding for mental health treatment. Reagan's choices are what has lead us to the position we are in now. Now we just have to fix the screw up.

I do. I do. Blame is more the word. I thought it was short sighted at the time. And I voted for him. (And I voted for Carter the first time.) Which is not to say that I didn't rant at him more than a few times. Of course, I ranted at Bush and I rant at O.

So go sign the petition, and tell all your friends about it. I'm pretty serious that this is now our problem. We had better become the lead dog champions for mental health issues in the country so fast is makes Barak Obama jealous.

Here's the stuff again. Sorry you have to use the short link. The petitions aren't searchable until they get 150 signatures. And being a friendless fat old curmudgeon with guns instead of an attractive young lass it's difficult for me to charm people.


http://wh.gov/nTna


WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:


$2 Federal Excise on Handguns and Long Guns earmarked for Mental Health Services


Recent shootings have focused national attention on gun violence. The dramatic events in Newton, CT involved a young male. The Aurora, CO event involved a young male. The Tucson, AZ event involved a young male. Others were the same. And a connecting thread is that these young men were mentally ill, which is not a condition they voluntarily chose. These are failures of the nation's mental health system, not failures of gun control.

We should establish a $2 per handgun or long gun point of retail excise tax earmarked for mental health services to improve the state of the nation's capacity to identify and treat patients in need. These funds should not be part of the general fund, and this excise tax funds the benefit just like hunting licenses fund wildlife management.

Created: Dec 18, 2012
Issues: Firearms, Health Care

 

[Billy Shears]

originally Posted by michaelbsc

Originally Posted by kalel33
You can thank President Reagan for that when he shut down all the mental hospitals and cut funding for mental health treatment. Reagan's choices are what has lead us to the position we are in now. Now we just have to fix the screw up.

I do. I do. Blame is more the word. I thought it was short sighted at the time. And I voted for him. (And I voted for Carter the first time.) Which is not to say that I didn't rant at him more than a few times. Of course, I ranted at Bush and I rant at O.

Why do people love to lay all the blame on Reagan? It is simply NOT all his fault, and anyone who thinks it is either has a selective memory, or has not been fully informed.

The push for deinstitutionalization began in the 1960s -- long before Reagan was president, and before he was even governor of California. Once upon a time, it was common for people who could afford it to institutionalize family members with retardation or mental illnesses. (There was no mandated special education for mentally retarded people then, so a lot of people who were mentally retarded were institutionalized along with the mentally ill.) The ACLU filed suit on behalf a some patients who had been committed against their will, and a lot of medical professionals supported the idea of deinstitutionalizing many of these people. Then in 1974, special ed programs were mandated by federal law, and the movement to ‘mainstream’ persons with mental disabilities into our society. When Reagan took office he did cut federal funding to many of the mental hospitals, but this was because there was already the push underway to get many of these involuntarily committed patients out anyway and close some of these institutions as no longer necessary, because it was felt the patients' rights were being violated by institutionalizing them against their will, so long as they didn’t pose an immediate danger to themselves or others.

Anyway, once many of the institutions were shut down, and federal funding for them was cut. But this was done with the expectation the patients were supposed to be treated at the community level. Not all communities invested the resources needed to do this in programs for the mentally ill, and expected federal funding was never allocated to them -- Reagan couldn't allocate a dime, that's congress' job, and for most of his term, both houses were controlled by the other party. But the idea of treating mentally ill people as outpatients was poorly conceived from the get go. Even in communities that could fund this, the problem is that mentally ill people are not rational, and quite often cannot be depended on to stay on a course of medication.

So there's blame enough to go around for this, and only a little of it goes to Reagan.

 

[kalel33]

Why do people love to lay all the blame on Reagan? It is simply NOT all his fault, and anyone who thinks it is either has a selective memory, or has not been fully informed.

Even as a governor of California, Reagan cut most of the funding to mental health and shut down mental hospitals. He continued that into his presidency. During Jimmy Carter’s presidency with the first President’s Commission on Mental Health and passage of the Mental Health Systems Act in 1980, which sought greater integration of programs for people with serious mental illnesses. In 1981, after Ronald Reagan took office, this act was repealed, responsibility was devolved to the states through services block grants, and the federal government assumed a low profile in mental health policy.

Reagan might not have started it, but he did the most to deinstitutionalize mental health.

 

[beatledog7]

The US Constitution does not give the Federal government a role in mental health, or physical health for that matter. That's why Reagan wanted to "devolve" it to the states where it belongs.

BTW, presidents don't cut funding. It's not in their power.

 

[kalel33]

The US Constitution does not give the Federal government a role in mental health, or physical health for that matter. That's why Reagan wanted to "devolve" it to the states where it belongs.

BTW, presidents don't cut funding. It's not in their power.

Great! Devolve it to the states where the homeless population surges and now we have issues like these shootings. You can't favor the deinstitutionalization and then turn around and say, "It's a mental health problem, not a gun problem". If you think it's a mental health problem then yes it's Reagan's fault for the fundamental change in gutting spending.

He signed off on the Mental Health Care Act being repealed, which cut funding, which means it was within his power to cut that funding.