Mid-level FAL: DSA Austrian vs. Imbel (Entreprise)

[BruceB]

"...it's not a bloody purse!"

The FN-C1/C1A1 was the service rifle during my time in the Canadian Army. Let me assure you, the carrying handle was used a LOT and was also much appreciated. Army training manuals of the day specifically included the use of the handle for field carry. The rifle balances nicely at the handle whether loaded or unloaded, and the "trail arms" carry mode allowed many options for hauling other gear, and for shifting the load distribution when one position became wearisome.

I carried a C1 for MANY miles and hours, and personally would not have an FAL-type rifle without the handle.

There are times when a service rifle must be carried at the ready. There are also plenty of times when routine marches can make ease of carry very valuable. Even from the trail position, the rifle can be brought into action in very short order by a man who is accustomed to it.

This of course is the opinion of a former infantryman who LIVED with this rifle, and for those shooters without the needs of the soldier, an FAL with or without the handle is simply a matter of choice. My choice is as stated above.

Dang...I need another FAL.

 

[ny32182]

The very first thing I did to my STG58C was loose the bipod and metal handguards. That is a lot of useless weight getting dumped right there. It is easy enough to get off with the FAL multi-tool and the BIGGEST flathead screwdriver you can possibly find. Getting it back on might be a different story, but, I can't see any need to ever do that. Here is what it looks like today:

 

[MyRoad]

ny32182 - thanks for that picture! I just ordered the DSA "Extreme Duty" scope mount, and while the carry handle isn't as big an issue for me, I definitely want to get rid of the bipod... not that I might not attach a Harris someday...

Well, while this thread is rolling... where should I go to get the plastic handguards, the FAL multi-tool, and magazines for that matter. I was surprised that CDNN is out of FAL mags, and MidwayUSA only carries 5 and 10 rounders (@$25ea.). FAL mags are known for being readily available and cheap.

Mine has the 18" barrel. I decided some time ago I wanted my .308 'battle rifle' to be that length, as this discussion would come up periodically here with M1A's and Saiga's, and I decided that for me the 18 is the best compromise. (The fact that Saiga's don't have an 18" option and that their mags are $45+ and can be hard to come by is what made them less appealing.)

 

[Bwana John]

Well, while this thread is rolling... where should I go to get the plastic handguards, the FAL multi-tool, and magazines for that matter.

The best "plastic" handguards(IMHO) are are factory Imbel fiberglass(Bi-pod cut or non-bipod cut) hard to find in ex condition, followed by NOS Argentinian nylon bipod cut(medium easy to find in ex-condition), Followed by DSA US made plastic bipod cut ones(kinda flimsey compaired to the first 2).

The first tool to get is a buttstock tool, followed by M-14 castle nut plyers, then get the multi tool, then get a extractor tool... if your into it then get a receivcer wrench, then barrel vice, then headspace guages, then pin guages for headspacing, then a timing tool, then a barrel shoulder shaver... you get the idea. I have never needed a tool to adjust gas or regulate the front sight but many people cant seem to do those things without the specific tool.

The best place for mags(and everything else) is the FAL Files Marketplace. Plan on ~$10 a mag. Get many.

I think the scope mount is a waste of money, Id get a rear Para peep sight instead. Glass and battries on a FAL for me are lipstick on a pig. Spend your money on ammo instead.

 

[ny32182]

I got the tool and handguards (and railed cover, of course) from DSA. I hear DSA is also a good source for mags, but mine came from CDNN. My SA58 is 21", to scratch the long barrelled itch when it comes up. I have never shot an 18", but like you said it is probably a good compromise. The 21" is pretty long.

Some day I am going to try a SAW grip and ambi selector. That particular part of the stock ergos doesn't fit me very well, though overall I still find it to be the easiest to use of any .308 I have picked up. Granted I've never tried an AR10.

 

[Bwana John]

PS- While your changing out the handguards, keep going and replace the StG strait buttstock with an Imbel "humpback" one, and the stock pistol grip with one from a M-249 SAW.

 

[Coronach]

They say: "Limited Lifetime Warranty on New Parts"

I've emailed them and requested a list of the parts that are NOT new (and therefore not covered). I did that about two hours ago, I'll let you know if they get back to me.

Edit to add: When they drop the warranty on certain parts, it indicates that they don't have the same faith in those parts as the others. While this is understandable considering they are used, in the mean time it caused me to wonder which parts are questionable.

I dunno if this is a change from what it used to be, but I have a STG-58 that I sent back once for a barrel issue (the barrel being a surplus part), and they fixed it with zero questions asked and no reluctance whatsoever. It was out of my hands for a week and a half, tops.

That has been several years ago, though.

Mike

 

[MyRoad]

I sent back once for a barrel issue (the barrel being a surplus part),

I found a 'sticky' in the FALfiles forum from back in 2007, where a rep. from DSA said that because of importation rules/laws (?) the Austrian parts kits could no longer include the barrel, I don't recall if there was a reason or logic to that. Bottom line is that all current STGs use new American made barrels.

 

[Coronach]

This was in 2001. Good catch for the current buyers, though.

In truth, the STG parts kits are top shelf. The Austrians made a darned fine FAL copy. The main drawback of getting an STG is that you can't get it in exactly the config you want (unless you like the one it comes in).

Mike

 

[444]

FWIW:
I have an STG58 parts kit built on a DSA reciever as well as an Imbel parts kit built on a DSA receiver.

Bipod on STG58: I realize this doesn't mean much to anyone but me, but, I regularly shoot in a vintage military rifle match. Actually, two of them. In these matches, you are allowed to use something like a bipod or monopod if it was actually issued with the rifle. The match we shoot (I seldom go, but I HAVE gone) in Boulder City NV is shot on a rifle silhouette range using as-issued vintage 50s or earlier military rifles. At 500 meters (the Ram target), you can shoot from prone. Using the bipod on my STG58 and milsurp ammo, I can hit the ram target every time. That's what ? 547 yards if my memory serves me correctly.
Useless junk ?
Maybe for you, but I would love to see you hit that target from prone without the bipod.

At the other local club I belong to, we also have a 500 meter range where I have set up IDPA silhouettes at 500 meters. From prone, with the bipod, I am almost certain of a first round hit. With an AR15 at that range I basically can't hit it at all (wind) on the first round. I have to make corrections for wind.

Oh, and that is with issue sights also.
Scopes are for.................................aw let's just say we don't use them.

That STG58 really shoots well, and for some reason, I shoot it well. I have two M1As and I can't shoot them for crap. The STG58 that I own is definitely my favorite. The riflemen's quarter mile is no problem with this blaster.

Also, FWIW, I tried a few of the various aftermarket accessories for my FALs and I never found a single one of them that I felt was worth leaving on the rifle. The way it was issued, is TO ME, the best way to leave it. My STG58 is bone stock. My Imbel has some stuff on it that I used for compliance parts but I don't like them (like a selector for example).

 

[MyRoad]

Just picked up my DSA STG58 today!

ny32182 wrote:

The very first thing I did to my STG58C was loose the bipod and metal handguards.

Just as a side note -- mine came with "plastic" (?) handguards. DSA sells "Fiberglass Reinforced Injection Molded, Military Grade" handguards... I guess that's what these are.

There are holes on the bottom where I could mount a stud for a (Harris) adjustable bipod, but its right on a seem where the two halves meet, and at first glance it doesn't seem like it would be a very stable place to mount something.

Overall, the gun is beautiful, and looks brand new inside and out. The FFL who transferred it for me called it in as an "SA58", because that's what's stamped on the receiver (upper) -- I suppose its the same part as the STG uses.

I'm going to try and get to the range one day this week... I can't wait.

 

[AndyC]

Congrats - now post pics

 

[MyRoad]

Congrats - now post pics

At the moment it looks just like the one on DSA's website... but I've ordered a few things for it... it will be a bit more unique and more suited to my needs in the next week or two. When the project is complete, then I'll take some pictures.

I found an 'almost new' scope rail/dust cover replacement online, and saved some money on that purchase. Now I'm glad I did, because as others have mentioned, it replaces an easily removable piece with a not-as-easily removable piece, and I'll have to see how much that interferes with cleaning and if its more of an annoyance than a useful addition. At some point I will scope it, even if its only for one trip to the range, just to see what my best groups are at 100 yards.

Predictably, in so far as I know myself pretty well, I'm not surprised that I haven't even fired this rifle yet and I already want another one. My safe is starting to look like Noah's Gun Ark - I'm collecting everything in pairs. Maybe I'm harboring some latent hope that if these guns become 'banned', I'll be able to breed mine and make more? LOL.

 

[AndyC]

I know exactly what you mean; my own "next project" is a para-style - just pondering on barrel-length between the 21", 18" or 16":

 

[MyRoad]

just pondering on barrel-length between the 21", 18" or 16"

Here's my take on that... and I'm not expert, this is just MHO.

This is a "battle rifle", for me that means being portable in various conditions including thick brush. Since the FAL is a fairly accurate rifle but not 'sniper rifle accurate', and based on that ever-widening group, (even with a scope) I don't consider this rifle to be optimal over 200 or 300 yards -- so all that said, 21" seems like wasted barrel length to me. On the other hand, 16" seems to be a bit short for .308 in general. 18"-19" inches seems to be a good compromise, so 18" is what I have on my STG.

That said, my next one, should there be a next one, would probably also be a Para. And, in that case, if I'm going for the folding stock and ultimate 'portability', I might just go all the way and get the 16". I would definitely not get a para with a 21", that just seems contradictory.

 

[Bwana John]

I like 17 3/8" and 18" barrels on my FAL's

The FAL is not a precise enough weapon to justify 21", and 16" 7.62's can have alot of flash and bang.

I wouldnt cut down the barrel of a M-14, and AK's are best as short as possible, but the FAL just feels right for me at ~18".

 

[MyRoad]

I dunno if this is a change from what it used to be, but I have a STG-58 that I sent back once for a barrel issue (the barrel being a surplus part), and they fixed it with zero questions asked and no reluctance whatsoever. It was out of my hands for a week and a half, tops.

That has been several years ago, though.

Yes, apparently that's changed. I'm having problems with mine, it seems to be gas system related, I was told by their tech. rep. that I could send it to them (at my expense) and they would fix it, but they would charge me parts and labor since the gas system is not new parts and therefore not under warranty.

 

[jrdale84]

On the carry handle side note - the US Army specifically identifies the 'carry handle' on the M16/4 series of rifle as a "carry handle" however god help the poor private caught carrying it from there. As such I'd be happy without it on there.

For all of you putting together 'para builds' while stationed in Haiti with Argentine Paratroopers [and 'swapping'] they are issued their FALs with 21" barrels. At first I thought it was kinda strange to have the full barrel with folding stock but they seemed to think it was better than the 18" barrel. Actually such logic inspired me to forego my planed 18" and go with the 21". After all most shooters extend everything that folds or telescopes when shooting ...

 

[Art Eatman]

Ah, necrothreadia!