Mini-14 idea....

[SHusky57]

I've been torn. I've spent months on internet forums and pondering in my office what my ideal defensive rifle would be.

I think I am about to be finished thinking.

Ruger Mini-14 tactical, regular black synthetic stock with the flash hider on the end for improved barrel harmonics.
Add XS tritium front post sight.
Will want to possibly mount a light, probably a TLR-1 or other blinding LED.

I am thinking about testing my wife's first (she loves her mini but is a more casual shooter than myself) to see if this project will be feasible given the general complaints about Mini-14 accuracy and whatever else it is people complain about them.

250 rounds.
5 - 3" targets @ 30 yards each set.
4 rounds each target, 20 rounds total each set. Only enough time to stop and reload mags, not enough to let the barrel fully cool.
If I can continue to hit a 3" target at 30 yards, for 250 rounds consecutively, call it good for a defensive rifle.

Or if someone already has the new Mini-14 ranch rifle (for apples to apples), they could just do this for me and save me the dough.... I mean, fun of doing it myself.

One gun salesman told me AR's were more reliable than mini-14s. That's contrary to my knowledge, research, and experience - but can anyone verify that?

From what I gather, the mini-14 is as reliable of an auto as you can get.

You may say, why 30 yards? 1) that's as far as my indoor range goes. 2) if you can hit a 3" target at 30 yards, you could probably be okay hitting a man sized target at 200 yards.... and if I need to shoot over 200 yards, I am going for a 30-06.

You may say, why mini-14? A) controls are WAY easier for lefty than AR B) I can't afford a real M14 C) My M16 jammed a lot in basic and I don't trust them unless they are surgically clean D) defensive weapons can't always be surgically clean E) .223 is a good close-quarters caliber because it doesn't over-penetrate (see FBI tests) F) They can be made to look very PC. Which matters to me because I'd like to take it out varmint hunting, G) Price of .223 is way more affordable than .308 Win, H) Mini-14 is not just cheaper than M14, but way the heck lighter.

The model I want breaks-down to....
OAL: 37.5"
Weight: 6.75 lbs
versus the AR which is
OAL: 35-38"
Weight: 6.74 lbs, unless you add all the barbie tools and then maybe like 9 lbs.

 

[browningguy]

Seems a lot of work to prove what everyone already knows. Mini's are considered very reliable, and they will shoot inside 3" at 30 yards.

 

[Ghost Walker]

One gun salesman told me AR's were more reliable than mini-14s. That's contrary to my knowledge, research, and experience - but can anyone verify that?

More reliable? No, AR's are NOT more reliable than Mini-14's. AR's are, however, more accurate; and, the magazines are more readily available and cost a lot less, too.

My own experience in shooting a Colt 6920 LE is that it doesn't have to be anywhere near, 'surgically clean' in order to be highly reliable; but, neither can it be absolutely filthy dirty or heavily covered with any sort of sandy grit.

STAG, which is an excellent brand, makes LH AR rifles - Good ones!

 

[OrangePwrx9]

Pretty much the same conclusion I arrived at, SHusky. The Mini-14 will do the job. If you've already got one, fine. If not, they've gotten a trifle pricey...within hollering distance of the price of a 'Good' AR. I've got a pair, a 187 series and a 580 series. The 187 will do 3" at 100 yards from a rest while the 580 does a bit better; so your 3" at 30 yards should be easy.

Another choice you've probably considered which I like just as well is the Russian Saiga. They can be had in either 7.62x39 or .223 (or .308 or shotgun gauges). At heart, they're an AK47 so reliability is a given. Accuracy is about the same as the Mini-14, though my .223 Saiga seems to outshoot both my Minis....even with a heavier trigger and inferior sights. The best thing is that they now cost about half what a new Mini-14 costs. The only bad thing is that they're a bit ugly and sinister looking while not having the fit & finish we're used to in the U.S.
Bob

 

[krs]

Seems a lot of work to prove what everyone already knows. Mini's are considered very reliable, and they will shoot inside 3" at 30 yards.

Which equates to a little bigger than 9 inches at 100 yds and 18 inches at 200. Maybe you'd better empty your mag at your 200 yd man, Shusky, then you might be right about being able to hit him.

Shusky:"You may say, why mini-14? A) controls are WAY easier for lefty than AR"

As a 'lefty' myself I'll have to energetically disagree.

 

[ArmedBear]

The only bad thing is that they're a bit ugly and sinister looking while not having the fit & finish we're used to in the U.S.

They also balance and point very poorly.

Which equates to a little bigger than 9 inches at 100 yds and 18 inches at 200.

I don't consider my Mini-14 to be accurate. But it will shoot more like 6" at 200 yards, maybe 9". Not great, but no worse than the iron sights will see, either.

I do consider my Mini-14 to be far more trustworthy than the AR. It will go bang if I pull the trigger. The AR will, if it's reasonably clean, and oiled.

However, I wouldn't get a Mini-14 for varmint hunting. You can certainly modify them to be very accurate (see Accuracy Systems) but you will pay through the nose for varmint-level accuracy. Of course, the same could be said of an AR, I suppose. You can pick up a Savage for a few hundred bucks, put a good scope on it, and have a varmint rifle that will shoot as well as a MUCH more expensive AR.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Get an AK-74 in 5.45 x 39 Soviet and LOTS of the wonderful steel-core ammo still to be had up front when you buy the rifle. Cheaper and better (in many ways) than 5.56 NATO.

Or, yes, consider an AK 47 in 7.62 x 39.

I like my mini fine for what it is, and a Mini will do what you are asking it to do--but an AK will do it cheaper.

If you go Mini, I'd go stainless if I did it over again BTW.

 

[ArmedBear]

Should have mentioned that: I wouldn't buy the Mini in anything but stainless. That's one of its best attributes, and adds to its reliability and superior tolerance of neglect. I also like the Xytel Ruger stock. Simple, quick-pointing, waterproof.

 

[DennyF]

Bought some new factory 20 round Mini 14 mags earlier this year, for around $27. They had a special on their E store for several months on 'em, apparently sold thousands of them at that price? Already has some used ones and didn't pay more than $35 for any of them, after the "AW ban" ended.

Got mine right away when Ruger was running that special on 20 rounders, know others that had to wait on back orders for theirs. Here are their current prices:

http://shopruger.com/Magazines/products/98/

They also have a fairly complete line of synthetic Mini 14 stocks on that site.

No need to spend a fortune on a Mini. Just saw a minty used one for $499 last week, SS/wood. 195 series, IIRC?

 

[OrangePwrx9]

Armed Bear said regarding Saigas:
"They also balance and point very poorly"

For you maybe. When I look at something, close my eyes, throw the Saiga to my shoulder and open my eyes, the sights are almost perfectly aligned with what I was looking at. If that's poor pointing, what's better?

Also, the muzzle heavy hang is steadier for offhand shooting. It's one reason why those long barreled muzzleloaders shoot so well offhand.

Besides, if the balance annoys you, they're easily converted to AK configuration using readily available parts. See the forum at Saiga-12.com. You could buy new and convert for less than the cost of a new Mini....but the converted look is even more sinister.

 

[ArmedBear]

If that's poor pointing, what's better?

"Pointing" involves how the gun behaves when in motion, and the weight distribution from muzzle to butt has a serious impact. Ever shoot clays with the Saiga? I've done it with the Mini.

Whether the sights line up with your eyes shut is "gun fit."

These are two different things.

It's one reason why those long barreled muzzleloaders shoot so well offhand.

A good one has a swamped barrel, which creates a weight distribution about as different from a Saiga as a gun ever was.

I'm not saying a longer, heavier gun isn't better for long range, slow offhand shooting by a non-moving shooter, at non-moving objects. It is.

These guns aren't my choice for that kind of shooting, and it isn't the only kind of shooting, either.

 

[stchman]

The new 580 series Mini-14 rifles are just as accurate as an AR. The older Minis were not as accurate.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Should have mentioned that: I wouldn't buy the Mini in anything but stainless. That's one of its best attributes, and adds to its reliability and superior tolerance of neglect. I also like the Xytel Ruger stock. Simple, quick-pointing, waterproof.

Exactly; we use this combo at work and our weapons get exposed to decades of service by many often less-than-gentle hands alongside the wood stocked versions and are stored in rugged environmental conditions. No comparrison after years and years, the wood stocked examples just show their age.

Like anything else, even AK's, they *DO* have occasional problems and kinks to be worked out (my mini had an issue with the extractor plunger <term?> not staying in proper allignment). But most can have the tar beat out of them before they cease to run.

Now that Ruger sells the 'good' mags to us peons, and has sexied up the mini in several configs, it's a rotten deal that one can buy 2 AKs for the price of one mini---or a decent carbine AR for less. The draw of the mini was its price point/ruggedness combo----now, its got to be the one you want to make it worth while IMO.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Ruger has an NRA ILA model that has a 16" barrel that was reviewed in one of the gun magazines and was supposed to be capable of 4" at 100 yards. It's small and should meet your accuracy needs.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

One way to decrease group size in a Mini is to dump the first round in the magazine into the backstop. Shoot the ones after that into the target for the group. The first round, the one chambered by hand, is often a flyer or at least enlarges the group significantly.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Why not just get an AK-type rifle?

 

[Sheepdog1968]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the mini-14. I would feel well protected with one. Where I live they are signifcantly less expensive the AR's.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Dangit

When I read the thread title, I thought idea was gonna involve all Mini-14s and the Mariana trench.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench