Minie ball mold question

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SlowFuse

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I got two old minie ball molds today and am curious if anyone has used either version that I received.

The first and the one that interests me most is an Ohaus 738 mold. On the other side it is marked 58-400-M. Not finding much on it. RCBS makes a similar 500 grain version of it currently it seems, but if this one is marked right it's 100 grains less.

The second one is a Lyman marked 575213. Looks like this is just a classic styled minie but I'm seeing there may be 2 or 3 variants of this model so a little research is due there.

Anyone used any of these or have any info on them?? Thanks!
 
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may have used the rcbs a few times 30 yrs ago, now use the rcbs Hodgen Mini. around 42 grn of 3ff should woork well. you want to size .001 to .002 under bore. easies way to measure is w over sized mini start in bore leaving nose out twist it 90 deg pull it measure it. size as said .001 to .002 under.
also got to the N-SSA form and ask.
 
I got two old minie ball molds today and am curious if anyone has used either version that I received.

The first and the one that interests me most is an Ohaus 738 mold. On the other side it is marked 58-400-M. Not finding much on it. RCBS makes a similar 500 grain version of it currently it seems, but if this one is marked right it's 100 grains less.

The second one is a Lyman marked 575213. Looks like this is just a classic styled minie but I'm seeing there may be 2 or 3 variants of this model so a little research is due there.

Anyone used any of these or have any info on them?? Thanks!

I have and have used both. I also have the RCBS 500gr version of the Ohaus mold. What they actually cast- you'll have to try them to find out. The Lyman 575213 is common as well. Again, you have to actually cast some bullets to know what they actually cast. Listed info is often only a generalization. This is due to how molds are made. A bullet mold is cut by a tool called a cherry. New, the cherry is going to cut molds that are "large". As it wears, the mold will be closer to what's listed. As it nears the end of it's useful life, the molds will cut "small". Of course, your alloy and temps will affect the outcome.

Word of advice making minies, run the lead pot hot, like 800+. Make sure the mold is hot. I preheat mine with a propane torch prior to casting. The key to casting good minies consistently is keeping the mold hot, especially the core pin. I use a bottom pour dripomatic Lee and hold the mold at a slight tilt as it fills. I usually only have to reject the first 5 or so before full production. Once everything is at temp, my reject rate is very low like under 1% till the pot gets too low on lead. I then recharge the pot, wait till it hits temp, reheat the mold and start over. And yeah, use ONLY pure lead. Wheel weights are far too hard for a minie to grip the shallow rifling in rifled muskets.

In casting, solid, flat base bullets usually don't need the pot to run over 800. There is no danger of lead vaporizing in a Lee pot as lead doesn't boil till about 1700F. The fumes are usually from flux and some impurities. Best not to inhale that stuff.
 
Thanks @dave951

The temp info is helpful. I'll be using a Lee pro pot for these but also bought a Lyman ladle because I heard a "forced pour" using these sometimes helps fill out the base.

Two things you mention that i'm curious on... Regarding recharging the pot: Do you let the remaining lead cool any before adding new ingots, or warm the ingots you are about to add? I've heard varying methods here with some people giving caution on putting cold ingots into full temp lead. When your pot gets low do you empty the rest into an ingot mold or something similar or leave whats remaining?

And, what do you like to use for flux in the bottom pour? I've seen sawdust, beeswax, candle wax and crayons mentioned aside from the commercially offered flux products.
 
Flux- pine sawdust and candlewax. Stir it in and let the dross sit on the surface to help cut off any oxygen getting to the melt.

Recharging the pot- if not in a hurry, I put cold ingots in CAREFULLY and slowly with tongs. I can see how some want to warm the ingots to get rid of any possible moisture since water and molten lead can cause visits from the tinsel fairy. If I'm in a hurry, I'll hold the fresh ingot over the pot with tongs and melt it into the pot with my propane torch. This gets the pot back to temp much faster. After casting, I put lead into the pot to bring it up to full and shut off rather than let it reach casting temp so I'm with the side that leaves lead in the pot.

As for bottom fill out- I have no issues when using a bottom pour IF the mold is hot and the lead is at 800+. I tilt the mold slightly and hold it in that position till it fills and them leave a generous amount of lead on top of the sprue plate. That insures as the lead cools, it won't make cavities and helps to keep the mold at operating temp. Most of the bottom fill out problems I've encountered were solved by making sure the core pin was at operating temp. A cold core pin will lead to poor fill out in the base and cavities in the center of the minie. When using the ladle, you'll have the mold to the spout at an angle as you start to pour, it's essentially the same as I do by tilting the mold on a bottom pour pot. I also get the mold up close to temp with a propane torch. No need to roast the mold, just leave the halves slightly separated and play the flame across making sure to get some in between the halves to the core pin. After a bit of that, then start casting, again, leaving a generous amount on the sprue plate to help get to operating temp. Toss the first 10 or so and with this method, you'll be in production pretty quickly. I put the sprues right back in the pot as they're knocked off. Some don't do it this way, I've never had an issue. The sprue is close to molten already and I run a 20lb pot so that little bit of lead won't affect how hot my pot actually runs and I do monitor it with a thermometer. Incidentally, I've noticed that the numbers on the Lee pot track about with 100F increments so "8" on the pot control is about 800F. I leave mine between 8 and 9 while casting minies.

When doing a production run, I'll cast until the pot gets below half full then take a break and recharge the pot. I'll leave the mold propped on the edge to keep it warm as the new lead comes back to temp. Again, it won't be quite to operating temp and you'll have to toss the first 10 or so but it will quickly be back in action. When things are going well, I'll cast about 80-90 minies per hour this way.
 
Day three of social distancing... I've got a pile of minie balls. These are the Lyman variety.

Lubing with a mix of Crisco and beeswax.
rps20200320_233113.jpg
 
Some like Crisco, but I did some head to head testing with other stuff. Lard won hands down against Crisco in my minie ball guns. The 42 Macon smoothbore likes olive oil, go figure. Part of the fun is finding what works best.

Make sure they're about .001 under bore, use about 40g 3f and good quality caps and you'll be surprised how well these guns can shoot.
 
Thanks @dave951

I have some tallow, same thing as lard? I've never actually used any of this sort of stuff to cook with so don't know much about it. I think it should be interesting, seems there are 1,001 BP lube recipes out there.

Looks like I may need a .575 sizer. Some that I measured at between .576-.577 seemed to almost fit, I didn't force them... The ten I lubed were very close to .575 and pushed into the bore with my thumb, had a little resistance. So my thought is to maybe go down another thousandth to .574 to be sure they seat easily the whole length of the bore...

On powder and caps 40 g of 3f is what was recommended for this particular rifle when I got it. I have GoEx 3f. All I can find cap-wise are the CCI reenactor musket caps. Will have to get an order together it seems if I want to try something else. I've got a nipple that takes #11 caps as well. Have a couple varieties of those to try on hand already...
 
Looks like you've got a good handle on things, SlowFuse.

Just as another point of reference:

I use a Lee pot and ladle cast. I agree with others about higher heat than normal. I find that necessary for any sort of hollow base/hollow point mould. I run between 800-850, and I like to dip the bottom front edge of the mould into the lead for two minutes. This violates the warranty on some moulds, but I have done it for decades and have never damaged one that way - and most of the time, the first bullet is perfect.

I don't like bottom pour as much for this kind of moulding because I like to let the lead overflow for several seconds. With a ladle I let it flow back into the pot. With bottom pour...

I just use a chunk of paraffin for fluxing. About half-an-inch square is plenty.

I never add cold lead to the pot. I use a 20 pound pot and rarely feel like casting so much at one sitting that I would need to refill. I just load the cold pot up with lead piled high, so that when molten, the pot is nearly full. When I'm done casting for the day, I just unplug it and let the leftover lead solidify in place. I do have several pots for different alloys, though.

I lube Minie balls by dipping them in a hot mixture of eight parts beeswax to one part mutton tallow. This is the most traditional method. I also use Gatofeo when it is convenient - I usually have a lot of it on hand. Mutton tallow is not the same as lard, for what it is worth. Lard is from pigs. Tallow is from ruminants, like cattle and sheep. Tallow is harder than lard, and less messier, in my experience. Tallow - especially mutton tallow - keeps much better as well. A quart of rancid lard is...unpleasant.
 
Thanks @.38 Special - lots of good info there.

I had been curious about paraffin for flux, glad you mention it. I have a pack of it now that I was using before I got beeswax, its cheap and locally available. All the other stuff I have to order, except Crisco. I used sawdust on this past pot but it was from cut hardwood, did OK I guess.

When you dip the ladle into the pot, is it hard to get the lead off of the outside when you're done? Does is matter it it stays on there?

I'll have to keep experimenting with the lube mixes, this 50/50 blend melted on me pretty good and it was only 68 degrees Sunday. I did however let them dry and double dipped them again which I found is probably unnecessary. More stuff to stiffen up my mixes will definitely be needed in the coming months (Alabama). Thanks for the lard and tallow clarification. I'm not sure what type of tallow I have but its about a 8-9 pound block someone gave me. Its about 10 years old i'd guess. Dense off-white stuff that cuts like cold cheesecake... haha. I followed the Gatofeo blend recipe and made a small amount using my mystery tallow, but have only used it in cap and ball. Works well enough.
 
The lead can be peeled off the ladle if you really want. No real reason to, I figure, unless you need it for soup or something.

I've pretty much settled on mutton tallow and beeswax - sometimes with paraffin, to make it into Gatofeo - for most of my black powder shooting. I still use SPG when I need something dead soft, but that's not very often, these days.
 
I meant to say when you dip the mold, not ladle!

Ah, that makes more sense. When the mould is up to temperature the lead falls right off. I really enjoy when the very first bullet is perfect - especially when it's from a hollow point or hollow base mould!
 
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