Mixed News, but It's All Good!

[uncle.45]

Hi, All!
I got a new Dan Wesson Guardian last week. This weekend I got to put the first 200 rounds thru it, and I REALLY LIKE IT!!
However, I had to shoot factory ammo because all my reloads were 200gr SWCs at 1.265" col, and the Guardian's match barrel has almost no leade.
1.250" is the longest col that will plunk nicely in that barrel. I will load ammo at 1.240" so I can count on 100% reliability.
Should I reduce the powder charge (3.5gr Clays) by .1 to .2 grains when I reduce the col by .025" ?
I have designated the couple thousand rounds already in ammo cans for my 625JM, so I don't mind working up a new load for the new pistol. That's part of the fun of this hobby-addiction anyway, right?

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Congrats on the new gun

Can offer any insight into your loads but hope to hear about what you wind up doing and the results.

 

[Walkalong]

Even though it is a big case, Clays is very fast, so for a reduction of .025 in OAL I would definitely drop the charge by .1 to start. Although at that charge weigh I think you are OK.

 

[uncle.45]

Thanks. I figured at that low a charge it was quite safe, but I loaded some at 3.4, 3.5, and 3.6 grains to try.

 

[SamT1]

I don’t have experience with clays, but if it’s a lead cast swc I bet you’d be ok. If it gets hot you may need a shock buffer under the spring so your not beating the gun.
I couldn’t tell you what my length is, I just seat them until a finger nail thickness of shoulder is above the case mouth.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Should I reduce the powder charge (3.5gr Clays) by .1 to .2 grains when I reduce the col by .025" ?

No need to reduce your charge weight at all. As a matter of fact, your charge of 3.5gr Clays is below the starting charge weight supplied by Hodgdon.
From the Hodgdon in site:
200gr LSWC, starting charge of Clays 3.6gr, max charge is 4.3gr. but here is the kicker, their OAL is 1.225" so I'm sure if you go with 1.240" you will be fine. You might want to increase the charge a little, not reduce it. Be careful not to stick a bullet in the barrel with such a light charge. That load might not lock the slide back on the last round. If course I'm only guessing and adding a word of caution.

Congratulations on the new gun. In sure you will work the ammo out in short order...

 

[uncle.45]

You're right, ArchAngel.
I was going to play with different loads, but I just pulled the ones I loaded last night, and set up to load a hundred at my usual 3.5 grains.
I might not even be able to tell the difference.
The rounds I tried this weekend cycled the slide fine, but most wouldn't go fully into battery because of the col.
At this shorter col they should run 100%.
I'll give a report after the next range trip.

 

[Ruger 15151]

Congrats on the new gun! Sorry, don't have experience with Clays in 45 ACP.

Good match barrels sometimes have very little leade. They are made this way so a competition shooter can take his favorite load to a gunsmith and have him finish ream the throat for a given COL. However, many bullseye match shooters set their COL by just measure from the back of the case to the shoulder rather that to the end of the bullet because that's the area that will contact the riffling first on a SWC. The cone's shape and length varies depending on the manufacturer of the mold. I load to .920 from back of case to shoulder on even the tightest match barrels. You should only see about the thickness of a finger nail of shoulder sticking out past the case.

 

[uncle.45]

Ruger,
I just pulled out 5 rounds at random to check.
They average .928", and they plunk perfectly. They also cycle by hand very well.
I think they are OK, but if the Guardian doesn't run 100%, I will shorten them another .008".
Thank you!

 

[Ruger 15151]

Nice!... you should be good then. Have fun and let us know how your new baby shoots!

I just looked over on the Bullseye forums and they used to load 3.8gr Clay's when it was popular. These are bunny fart loads but extremely accurate as you can see!

 

[Doublehelix]

I don't really have a solution for you (sorry), but I have a Dan Wesson Silverback with the match barrel, and I load my 200 gr. SWC bullets at 1.250" and they work just fine. (GREAT, in fact.)

I guess what I am thinking is that you might not have to shorten the cartridge by much since I am guessing that the barrels are similar.

I am pretty old school, so I still load Bullseye for .45, so I am no help at all when it comes to a load using Clays.

 

[uncle.45]

Thanks Helix!
They do plunk fine at 1.250". I was thinking a few thousandths of slack might be good, but maybe it's not needed.
I will try this Sunday, and post results.

 

[Toprudder]

Clays is one of my favorite powders for reduced loads in 45acp. However, the lowest charge I have tried is 4.0gn, and that was with RMR plated 200gn RN bullets seated to 1.250", where I got 660fps out of a 4.5" barrel. Very soft shooting.

 

[uncle.45]

Hi Rudder!
I use 3.5 grains in my 625JM and 4.25" to 5" 1911s with great results.
Never a squib. Very soft, and cycles even 18# commander springs just fine.
This Sunday I am taking some loaded to a couple of different COLs to try out.
I am expecting 1.250" to be good.
I'll post results in a couple of days.

 

[Walkalong]

08-2016
80ish degrees
4.2 Grs Clays
WLP primer
Berrys 230 Gr RN
1.265 +/- OAL
Avg 713 FPS
ES 43
5" 1911

 

[Toprudder]

Hi Rudder!
I use 3.5 grains in my 625JM and 4.25" to 5" 1911s with great results.
Never a squib. Very soft, and cycles even 18# commander springs just fine.
This Sunday I am taking some loaded to a couple of different COLs to try out.
I am expecting 1.250" to be good.
I'll post results in a couple of days.

Please do. I have a 625 but I have not shot any of the Clay loads in it. I like to load the bullets really long for the 625, and tend to load hotter charges as well.

I bought the 625 so I could shoot up any loads that would not cycle or feed in my semi-autos. Found out that it is really accurate to boot.

 

[uncle.45]

Yes! The 625s are terrific shooters, and they will gobble up anything the autos don't like as long as they will chamber.
I usually load all ammo the same, and use it in all my handguns. I only own .45acps except for the FrankenRuger target pistol I built for the Wife.
I will post results Sunday. I just loaded a batch that are 1.251" +/- .001", and they plunk perfectly in my saami-minimum gage and the Guardian barrel.
I'm confident that they will be great!

 

[uncle.45]

The range trip was quite good, but there were 3 failures to go fully into battery out of the 100 rounds I shot in the new 1911.
The load was --

200gr Coated LSWC
3.4gr Clays
WLPs
CBC brass
1.250" COL
0.4 71" ' crimp'

Real soft, accurate load that's even pretty clean.
Since three rounds didn't fully cycle the slide, I am going to go back to 3.5grs or more of powder.
This load is so low that I was worried about a squib in the revolver.
Maybe the combination of more beak-in and another tenth grain of powder will make the Guardian run 100%.
All-in-all, I am satisfied.

 

[Ruger 15151]

The range trip was quite good, but there were 3 failures to go fully into battery out of the 100 rounds I shot in the new 1911.
The load was --

200gr Coated LSWC
3.4gr Clays
WLPs
CBC brass
1.250" COL
0.4 71" ' crimp'

Real soft, accurate load that's even pretty clean.
Since three rounds didn't fully cycle the slide, I am going to go back to 3.5grs or more of powder.

couple of thoughts that might help...

Every gun shots differently so if you are happy with the accuracy you are getting from 3.4 gr but you are having a few rounds not chamber, don't change the powder charge. first make sure that those rounds pass the plunk test. it may be that you need to load the bullet you are using a few thousands shorter.

Next, when shooting lower charges, most will reduce their rebound spring to between 10-12 lbs. This will also soften the recoil and still cycle your rounds perfectly at light loads. There is no reason to have a standard 16 lb recoil spring unless you are going to shoot factory 230 gr ball ammo.

Lastly, you may want to tighten your crimp to .470 or .469. believe it or not, that little bit matters in light changes because it allows a little more pressure to build before the bullet leaves the case.

Little details don't make much difference in a run of the mill standard 1911. However, since you now have a very nice accurized 1911 with a hand fitted barrel, the little things will make a difference in how the gun shoots for you.

 

[uncle.45]

Ruger,
Every round plunks great.
I tried each one before putting them in the range bag. They even fall freely into and out of my Dillon case gage.
I won't change the recoil spring because this is my favorite EDC gun, and I carry it with +P hollow points in it.
There was no difference in accuracy between 3.4 and 3.5 grains, so I am going to load target ammo to 3.5 grains and try 0.470" crimp.
I think just a little more breaking-in will make it run as well on the target ammo as it does on factory stuff.
Thanks!

 

[Toprudder]

Besides building a little extra pressure, I have a couple of guns that feed more reliably with a little extra crimp. Don't go below SAAMI min, though. 0.473 is the maximum dimension, and .467 is the minimum.

 

[uncle.45]

I couldn't wait for the weekend, so I loaded 100 rounds to try this morning.

200gr Coated LSWC
3.5gr Clays
WLPs
CBC Brass
1.245" +/- .002" COL
0.470" +/- .0005 Crimp

After adding 0.1gr powder, shortening the col by .005", and reducing the crimp by .001", the Guardian runs 100% on these soft target rounds.
The accuracy is outstanding, too.
IT'S ALL GOOD!!

 

[Dudedog]

Nice when things work out