Modern production Winchester 1895 Russian 7.62x54mmR?

[.455_Hunter]

Curious question of the day...

Given the scarcity of the most produced 1895 variant, why hasn't Winchester/Browning/FN/Miroku done a replica of the WW1 Russian 1895 Musket?

A clip loaded 1895 for ~$1000 that shoots cheap 7.62x54mmR would seem to be highly desirable, plus a cool replica of a historic arm.

Thoughts?

Too must extra customization for the clip loading system versus "normal" production examples .30-06/.30-40/.405?

Lever gun would not play nice with steel case and/or surplus corrosive ammo?

 

[mcb]

Why would I want to pay $1000 plus dollars for a gun to shoot cheap crappy ammo? I have my $75 Nagant for burning up the 7.62x54R. They only way an Win 1895 personally appeals to me would be in 405 Win.

And is 7.62x54R still a cheap to shoot cartridge? I though all the really cheap stuff has dried up already. A quick look at AmmoSeek.com seems to indicate 7.62x54R is running about the same cost as 7.62x51.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Why would I want to pay $1000 plus dollars for a gun to shoot cheap crappy ammo? I have my $75 Nagant for burning up the 7.62x54R. They only way an Win 1895 personally appeals to me would be in 405 Win.

And it 7.62x54R still a cheap to shoot cartridge? I though all the really cheap stuff has dried up already. A quick look at AmmoSeek.com seems to indicate 7.62x54R is running about the same cost as 7.62x51.

Why do they make replica of any historic guns if you can just shoot something else? Its not just about blasting ammo.

I am not basing anything on the current price situation. You can often get .41 Mag cheaper than 9mm JHP or even ball right now. Is that sustainable?

 

[dh1633pm]

I like your idea and with reloading, ammo is no issue. I think the bigger problem is taking a chance on something that may or may not sell well enough to justify the work.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I think the bigger problem is taking a chance on something that may or may not sell well enough to justify the work.

They thought it was a good idea to chamber the "current" 1895's in .270 Win for awhile, a cartridge that was never offered in the original guns, and didn't sell well in the present time. I think they recalled them from disturbers and re-barreled for .405. Of course, the .270 chambering was easy to do, a 7.62mm Nagant is more complicated, but way more interesting.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I'd love to have an original, but I don't believe they could sell many reproductions. I know that given a choice between a repro in 7.62X54R, and .405, I'd take the .405, or .30US. I like the '54, and have a few rifles chambered for that, but not in love with it, and I don't think most people are. Those that do/are, are probably much more interested in Mosin-Nagants, Dragonov's, PSL's, etc.

 

[DocRock]

They thought it was a good idea to chamber the "current" 1895's in .270 Win for awhile, a cartridge that was never offered in the original guns, and didn't sell well in the present time. I think they recalled them from disturbers and re-barreled for .405. Of course, the .270 chambering was easy to do, a 7.62mm Nagant is more complicated, but way more interesting.

Mainly because nitwit gun writers made utterly unsupported claims about the Miroku 1895 not being able to handle SAAMI spec 270 Win pressures.

When was the last batch of Miroku 1895s? Wasn't it early 2000s? I suppose a 100 Year Commemoration of the Russian Revolution in 2017 would have been a little tenuous for a Russian Musket '95. Given that they only make them in batches every now and again, tooling up for the Russian model shouldn't be a problem and a commemorative edition of the most produced variant would make sense. I have an 80's vintage "Browning 1895" in 30-40 and would pay for a Russian model replica, but I wouldn't shoot surplus 7.62x54R in it. You want FN to pursue it; start a GoFundMe and ask $10 a head. If you can show a thousand people willing to put up $10 to "sign a petition", I bet they would take notice - and maybe offer $100 rebate to any of the one thousand signatories who buys one

 

[.455_Hunter]

When was the last batch of Miroku 1895s? Wasn't it early 2000s?

They are making them now...

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1895/model-1895-current-products.html

 

[.455_Hunter]

There is some new brass case 7.62mm Nagant on the market (S&B, PPU), but the bulk is steel case.

It may be the scenario that steel case ammo and lever actions don't mix- I don't know.

 

[DocRock]

They are making them now...

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1895/model-1895-current-products.html

Interesting. Sure would like one in 30-06...

 

[.455_Hunter]

Interesting. Sure would like one in 30-06...

I have one in .405. It's very nice!

 

[WisBorn]

I would be curious about how many of the 30-40 Krags they sell? The 405 offers the history of the rifle and a legacy of Teddy Roosevelt if my memory serves me right.

 

[hq]

Given the scarcity of the most produced 1895 variant, why hasn't Winchester/Browning/FN/Miroku done a replica of the WW1 Russian 1895 Musket?

Have you shot or handled one? They're just about the clumsiest, bulkiest variation on the 1895-theme in existence. Both unmolested and sporterized ones grow in trees here and price range has been $100-400 for a long time. Recent collectibility issues have pushed some asking prices to $1000 or more but few sell for anywhere near that, collectors already have a few each.

If there really is demand, it might be worthwhile to scavenge all you can from local gun shops and obtain EU export paperwork for bulk shipments for an one-time saturation of US collector, shooter and enthusiast market. Export paperwork isn't very difficult or prohibitively expensive to arrange for a single gun either, so if someone really wants one, the amount of red tape is much less than one might expect.

I have a 1910's vintage, mint (99% original bluing) but sporterized 1895 I impulse purchased for $150 a few years ago. Restoring it may be an option but I'm not a collector, it isn't much of a shooter in original configuration and there are much better originals out there so it has become a project gun for rebarreling, caliber change and a stock upgrade.

 

[Goosey]

If there was a demand they probably would have made it. Probably these factors:

1. Not an iconic rifle, it's a Russian military oddity - low demand
2. Collector market would obsess over any modern alterations and gripe about defarbing
3. Not at all desirable to hunters
4. Different and therefore more expensive to make

I would be curious about how many of the 30-40 Krags they sell? The 405 offers the history of the rifle and a legacy of Teddy Roosevelt if my memory serves me right.

The .405 gets that Teddy boost but I would actually like one in .30-40. Most of the civilian rifles were chambered for .30-40, and the 1895 in .30 US was a pretty popular, powerful sporting arm around the turn of the century. You have to remember for a while people couldn't get hold of bolt-action rifles in .30-40, and after they replaced the Krag, then they couldn't get hold of rifles in the .30-06, because these were active US service rifles. The .30-30 had just come out, if you wanted more powerful smokeless arms there weren't too many options. You could get some European bolt-action sporting rifles, but overall the 1895 offering both .30-40 and .30-06, didn't have that much competition in the early days.

 

[P5 Guy]

I'd rather have an SVT38/40

 

[DocRock]

I would be curious about how many of the 30-40 Krags they sell? The 405 offers the history of the rifle and a legacy of Teddy Roosevelt if my memory serves me right.

I love my Miroku in 30-40. Just heading out to the club to shoot it in competition this morning!

 

[Risky buisness]

Always wanted an 1895....
Rimmed cartridges are my favorite, and I reload for 7.62 R, other than the musket part I'm all in.

 

[daniel craig]

Personally I’d like to see a modern bolt or semi auto rifle chambered for this cartridge more readily available in the us.