Mom, *PLEASE* be more situationally aware next time...

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MacTech

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Mom and I were out grocery shopping this evening, in a small, southern NH town near the seacoast (Dover), and just experienced a situation that had the *potential* to go bad, but thankfully it didn't, thanks to a nice vigilant couple, and myself...

I'm recuperating from a broken ankle from a car accident this January (bimolellar fracture) and i'm in a walking boot, so mobility is limited and I was extremely tired tonight....

Mom was in the store, paying for the groceries, and I went out to sit in her car to wait, I was really knackered out (sorry, sometimes Britishisms slip into my conversations, I blame too much Monty Python/Black Adder/Who's Line/Young Ones/Classic and NuWho…)….

While I was sitting, a rather sketchy looking young adult wheeled up on a bike, carrying a raty old Dunkin Donuts foam cup, his body language and general demeanor had a bit of suspicion to it, he looked shady, not due to his appearance, but due to the way he carried himself and moved around...

my instincts were put to high alert, I kept my eyes on him...

...Mom came out of the store with the cart of groceries, and scumbag's eyes immediately locked on her, her purse particularly, and he began to focus intently on her....

I made eye contact with him, gave him a cold stare, and stepped out of Moms car, turning my right shoulder slightly to face him, and angled my arm towards my right pocket, not reaching for anything, just hinting that there *might* be something there....

I then saw out of the corner of my eye, another couple at the tailgate of their truck, staring daggers at the scumbag, the combination of us three caused him to move off towards the front of the grocery store, a good distance from Mom, as he shiftily kept his eyes locked on her, fidgeting with his bile handlebars and passing the cup from hand to hand, *trying* to think, never taking his eyes off Mom....

she finished loading the groceries and as she stepped into the car, the other Samaritan asked her if she saw the scumbag, he then said it looked like he was thinking of snatching her purse, so he kept his eyes on the scumbag, she thanked him, I gave him a wave and thumbs up, and we drove off...

over at the grocery store, the scumbag was joined by another scummy looking hoodlum, both looking around suspiciously, I gave him one last evil glare as we left.

On the drive back, I asked Mom if she saw the scumbag, she didn't, she was completely unaware of him until the Samaritan told her, she was clearly in condition white the whole time, she tried laughing it off a bit (nervous laughter) and said that "I'll be all right, I know Tai Chi", half joking, half serious...

I was *NOT* serious, I was quite blunt as to how foolish it was to be in condition white and I begged her to please use this as a learning experience and to be more situationally aware, I also strongly recommended she have some form of defensive item *ON HER PERSON* at all times, be it pepper spray, a striking tool, a knife, a concealable firearm, *SOMETHING* she feels comfortable carrying *ON* her whenever she's out, it has to be on-body carry, a defensive tool in a purse is useless if the purse is stolen or taken from her

oh, and incidentally, the whole time in the encounter, I had my S&W Shield 2.0 9mm on me, and was fully prepared to use it if need be, but as it never got to the point of force being necessary, it *STAYED* concealed, it's called concealed carry for a reason

How can I go about impressing on Mom, a person who always sees the *best* in everyone, and is far more trusting than she should be, the importance of situational awareness and the importance of some form of on-body defensive tool carry? I can't be there to protect her 24/7, no matter how much I want to...
 
She might be enjoying a better quality of life than you. If the bicycle rider snatched the purse, what could she do about it? What would you do about it?
 
The Samaritan thought the scumbag was a potential purse snatcher, my gut instincts were screaming *mugger*, hence why I got out of the car and made my presence known, and that I was fully aware of him, I never broke visual contact with him, I let him know, through *MY* body language that I knew he was there, and it'd be a bad thing to try and do anything.

since he never actually made any overtly malicious moves, I didn't need to escalate, a simple "I'm watching you, don't even *THINK* of trying anything" prevented any further escalation...

on hindsight, i'm wondering if I should have called the police non-emergency number to notify them of a suspicious person?
 
I think you could buy a couple pepper sprays (one to learn with, the other to carry), do a learning session with her, and beg her to promise to carry it at all times. Sabre makes one with a belt clip.
 
might be enjoying a better quality of life than you.

Absolutely

My mom and sister are blissfully ignorant. They know no stranger and are never skeptical. I went in to pick up a pizza years ago vacationing, passing through one of the highest crime rate areas in the US. I left my mom and wife in a locked car. When I got the pizza I walked out to find my mom hugging a strange woman who had asked for money. Mom had gave her a 20. In 3 minutes we had went from "leave the door locked until I get back" to outside the car mingling with a strange person handing out money. I said you know she is probably going to buy alcohol or cigarettes and could have robbed you. Her reply was "I gave when I thought I needed to, what she does with it is her business" apparently the woman had a military ID..... real or fake, who knows

My sister lived in a slum area at the coast years ago. No gun, no nothing. Police raids and killing all the time. She isn't anti-gun at all. Just thought other things were more important to spend money on. I left her one of mine, she never needed it. She lived many places she has long since moved back 1 mile from home.

Mom is late 60s and has seen the worst of people. My sister is 40s and has too. The world hasn't made them what it has me. I stopped trying to convince them years ago, when I realized that they do in fact live a less stressed and happier life. Ive give pepper spray, shooting lessons, offered my gym to them..... they ignore it.
Humerous though when you think about it. I'm around 6 foot 5 with shoes and a 200 lb weight lifter/ trained fighter. They are 5 foot 5 and 165ish lb women and I'm the one who feels the need to watch out.
 
Mom was in the store, paying for the groceries, and I went out to sit in her car to wait,

You left her alone in the store and you're worried about her situational awareness? You are a no go at this station. (Sorry sometimes Armyisms slip into my conversations)


Mom came out of the store with the cart of groceries, and scumbag's eyes immediately locked on her, her purse particularly, and he began to focus intently on her....

Of course, she was alone which made her an easy target

I made eye contact with him, gave him a cold stare, and stepped out of Moms car, turning my right shoulder slightly to face him, and angled my arm towards my right pocket, not reaching for anything, just hinting that there *might* be something there....

I've had people challenge me when they knew beyond question that I was armed. What would you have done if he had called your bluff

On the drive back, I asked Mom if she saw the scumbag, she didn't, she was completely unaware of him until the Samaritan told her, she was clearly in condition white the whole time, she tried laughing it off a bit (nervous laughter) and said that "I'll be all right, I know Tai Chi", half joking, half serious...

I was *NOT* serious, I was quite blunt as to how foolish it was to be in condition white and I begged her to please use this as a learning experience and to be more situationally aware, I also strongly recommended she have some form of defensive item *ON HER PERSON* at all times, be it pepper spray, a striking tool, a knife, a concealable firearm, *SOMETHING* she feels comfortable carrying *ON* her whenever she's out, it has to be on-body carry, a defensive tool in a purse is useless if the purse is stolen or taken from her

Again, I don't want to hear about her condition white when you were dumb enough to leave her alone at a "watering hole" (place where predators go to hunt)

The Samaritan thought the scumbag was a potential purse snatcher, my gut instincts were screaming *mugger*,

There's a difference?

hence why I got out of the car and made my presence known, and that I was fully aware of him, I never broke visual contact with him, I let him know, through *MY* body language that I knew he was there, and it'd be a bad thing to try and do anything.

How far away were you? Could you have made the shot with your 3 inch barreled Shield? Did you have a plan for Tweaker number 2 (There's Always a Tweaker number 2)
 
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What bluff?

Read a little further. Had a S&W Shield the whole time.

He just gave the impression he was reaching for something (which is still a questionable move)
 
how'd that work out for him?

Fine it seems. I'm just saying that she wasn't left alone on bourbon street at midnight.... she was buying groceries at her small town grocery store during the evening. "Mom" was also driving "her car" so she isn't exactly helpless and depending on the OP for care either. I just dont see that "dumb" was really shown by the OP in letting his mom buy her groceries by herself. And if it was I have been dumb once.....a bunch of times. That's Quite possible though.

Maybe the biker was handing out bible tracts. Who knows. Just last week I was called out to check on a suspicious "wierdo" on a bicycle going behind a factory......The wierdo wasn't wierd at all. He was also hauling a weedeater and Gas jug. Lol. He was working for the ground keeping contractor
 
What bluff?

Read a little further. Had a S&W Shield the whole time.

He just gave the impression he was reaching for something (which is still a questionable move)

"Had it" and "Had the training and testicular fortitude to use it" are two different things. What happens when the Tweaker calls your bluff?
 
Fine it seems. I'm just saying that she wasn't left alone on bourbon street at midnight.... she was buying groceries at her small town grocery store during the evening. "Mom" was also driving "her car" so she isn't exactly helpless and depending on the OP for care either. I just dont see that "dumb" was really shown by the OP in letting his mom buy her groceries by herself. And if it was I have been dumb once.....a bunch of times. That's Quite possible though.

My wife carries. I don't always accompany her shopping (I always go with her after dark) but when I do, I. Don't. Leave. Her. Alone.

If no one has told you this, grocery stores are watering holes. Thugs literally go there looking for little old ladies with purses full of money to rob.
 
"Had it" and "Had the training and testicular fortitude to use it" are two different things. What happens when the Tweaker calls your bluff?

OP said he was fully prepared to use it. Take his word for it or not. Many folks here concealed carry. I’m not about to ask all of them about what they are going to do if someone “calls their bluff” or go challenging every one of them by trying to “call their bluff”.

Once again, what bluff? The bluff of putting your hand somewhere? Are you talking about defending yourself in court because there was provocation with this bluff?

I guess if they call the bluff you escalate the situation with verbal confrontation followed by an actual weapon and not just posturing.
 
My wife carries. I don't always accompany her shopping (I always go with her after dark) but when I do, I. Don't. Leave. Her. Alone.

If no one has told you this, grocery stores are watering holes. Thugs literally go there looking for little old ladies with purses full of money to rob.
Maybe where YOU live; not all of us are blessed to live in such high-crime areas. There ARE plenty of places where that doesn't happen. Being on alert is one thing, seeing a mugger in every unknown person near you is something else.
 
Maybe where YOU live; not all of us are blessed to live in such high-crime areas. There ARE plenty of places where that doesn't happen. Being on alert is one thing, seeing a mugger in every unknown person near you is something else.

Everywhere.

Grocery stores (to a greater or lesser degree) attract predators because they know there are easy targets there.
I do live in a town that is overrun with Street Rats but they're in your town too. Just maybe not so many.
I don't see a mugger in every unknown person near me. I do acknowledge that some areas are higher risk than others.
 
Dover NH isn’t exactly a hotbed of criminal activity, but it does have “bad areas” like every large town, this particular grocery store is in the “good” area, in the downtown/Main Street business district, it’s been there for decades and the people are generally decent.

Mom is in far better shape than I am, but I’m working on getting healthy again, if it came down to it, she’s in better defensive shape than me, to be honest, her primary issue is living life in condition white and being too trusting

I’m more out of shape, but far more vigilant and inherently suspicious of people, she always sees the good side, I always see the worst side, it makes for spirited discussions on human nature

I’m sure she could have defended herself, I wasn’t going to let scumbag get that chance.

Mom is still unaware I was carrying last night, it’s called concealed for a reason.

She has had time to think on this, she’s going to discuss the situation with her tai chi instructor at her next lesson, and she’s thinking about what she’d be willing to carry for a defense tool.

For now, I’m trying to lean her towards some form of pepper spray, maybe a pepper spray kubaton as a key ring, something she’ll carry with her all the time.
 
Dover NH isn’t exactly a hotbed of criminal activity, but it does have “bad areas” like every large town, this particular grocery store is in the “good” area, in the downtown/Main Street business district, it’s been there for decades and the people are generally decent.


And yet a rather sketchy looking young adult showed up and targeted your mom.
 
The good thing: by making this person aware of your presence you may very well have averted a crime.

Some things that need to be said however: my apologies if you're already aware of these things, but since you didn't state them explicitly in your post, I can't be sure, and even if you are, someone else reading this may not be. In no case in a simple snatch and grab could you legally shoot. It's a property crime. If you shot the purse snatcher to prevent him from grabbing your mother's purse or immediately afterwards, the only question would be what level of charges you would face. You could have shot in this case only to protect her from serious bodily harm. Simply preventing a crime or stopping an escape wouldn't be justification. Many of the assaults of this nature are accompanied with serious physical injury, but this assumption isn't a given. It would be incumbent upon you to prove that you were stopping serious bodily injury from occurring. Even if she had already been injured, he had the purse, and was then escaping, you still couldn't shoot. Because it would no longer be defense of the innocent. It would be retribution.

It's also important to understand that while your assessment of this person's intentions made him well worth your atention nothing you saw would constitute evidence that would mean anything in a courtroom. Even if the person later proved to have a long criminal record that couldn't be used to exonerate you because you couldn't have known that at the time.

It's a harsh world.

One point that's come up in this thread several times is the psychological advantages of looking upon the world as a benign place. Many people use this as a justification for being unprepared on the assumption that if they look upon every stranger with favor that somehow life is better. Fine, if anyone wants to think that way, they're welcome to it. I would point out that the advantages of such a philosophy, if they exist, are hardly quantifiable. A realistic view of the world and some effort taken to be prepared for unfortunate situations doesn't in itself carry with it the assumption of unhappiness.
 
I do agree with trunk monkey that reaching for "something" might make a tweaker go for his "something". Not saying I have a better idea for the OP. Don't forget he was in a leg boot and probably not exactly imposing in that condition. I've dealt with hundreds of tweakers and junkies. They can certainly be a problem. I generally close the gap and rely on power and training, and honestly intimidation to an extent, but the OP in a feeble position didn't really have those options it seems.

The Sketchy looking guy may be on a forum somewhere talking about how 2 strange sketchy looking guys in a nice parking lot tried to ambush him from two directions while he was about to offer to carry a ladies groceries to her car.

Or maybe he is telling how he rode up to an older lady to tell her that two strange men were staring at her and stalking her and the two thugs ran him off, one even went for his gun.....

Luckily it didn't matter in the end. Nothing came of it. But we have no idea what was going on.
 
One point that's come up in this thread several times is the psychological advantages of looking upon the world as a benign place. Many people use this as a justification for being unprepared on the assumption that if they look upon every stranger with favor that somehow life is better. Fine, if anyone wants to think that way, they're welcome to it. I would point out that the advantages of such a philosophy, if they exist, are hardly quantifiable. A realistic view of the world and some effort taken to be prepared for unfortunate situations doesn't in itself carry with it the assumption of unhappiness.

If my life has taught me nothing else it's taught me that the world is not a benign place. I never walk out my front door unarmed, people think I'm paranoid. Then one night I walked out my front door and two dirtbags tried to rob me. Guess I wasn't as paranoid as people thought.

Bottom line, no place is immune. There are no safe places, there are no good neighborhoods. Street Rats can show up anywhere and you should be prepared for that. Better to have and not need and all that
 
The only actions you're responsible for.... are your own. The world is full of nice folks - that are absolutely clueless, and with a bit of luck and a higher power looking over them they'll go through life without harm - but that isn't the world I live in...

Yes, you look out for your loved ones and do what you can... but don't be surprised when someone you know is out in the world believing that all is good -and that everyone they meet is a potential friend... If you try to educate them - they'll get annoyed with you... another of those "ask me how I know" propositions...

Every armed citizen needs to stay alert and pay attention to their surroundings - it just goes with the territory. Most folks though won't live that way and you need to remember that up front....
 
Everywhere.

Grocery stores (to a greater or lesser degree) attract predators because they know there are easy targets there.
I do live in a town that is overrun with Street Rats but they're in your town too. Just maybe not so many.
I don't see a mugger in every unknown person near me. I do acknowledge that some areas are higher risk than others.

As far as situational awareness is concerned, there are no safe places. Yes, grocery stores are better than average places for trouble even in “nice” neighborhoods.

It goes along with the thinking that no one is going to break into your house if you live in a nice area but these are the areas crooks focus on and may not make a habit of doing serial break ins but they are always watching and waiting for the opportunity.
 
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