Monte Carlo stocks....

[Dave McCracken]

About 100 years past, a popular sport in Europe was live pigeon shooting. Often these were big money events, and some are still held with large cash prizes.

One hot spot for pigeon shooting was Monaco. The casinos in Monte Carlo hosted events, and the best shots in Europe came to compete for what was the highest prizes of any sport in those days.

Naturally, specialty guns designed for pigeon shooting weren't long in coming. Oft SxS doubles from top makers, these had fitted stocks, long barrels and often ran heavier than sporting doubles,weighing up in the range target shotguns still are, 8-10 lbs.

Since the game's shot premounted, a stock that aided consistency rather than speed was of paramount importance. Thus developed the Monte Carlo stock.

More accurately, it's a Monte Carlo comb. The comb is raised so that it fits into the "Notch" under the cheekbone so the dominant eye is anchored in place where it belongs.Usually, the eye is placed so that the shotgun shoots a bit higher than dead on, say 55/45 to 70/30.

Stocks with adjustable combs are now made or a stock can be retrofitted, giving one the option of fine tuning the POI with one.

ADVICE: Once you get it right, leave it alone.

For those of us with longer necks, it's great for clay games and some hunting.

I haven't used them for much more than the last 4 years or so on shotguns, though I have had a number of centerfire rifles with them to aid in positioning the head correctly for using a scope. Some dedicated slug shotguns come with them for that reason.

When I became the latest custodian of my 870 TB, it took a few sessions to get used to the M/C comb. To get it right for me, I have to use enough pressure that there's no compression left in the soft tissues under my cheekbone. Once that was mastered, clays started to shatter with satisfying regularity.

The M/C stock on the TB impressed me enough that I mounted one on Frankenstein of similar dimensions. Besides a large number of evil little clay discs, I used it for my ten minute goose hunt back in January and intend to repeat my good fortune as soon as the season opens with it. It's also done well on preserve shooting as long as I remember to get the right pressure on my cheekbone.

Of course, there's a downside....

First, it may not be quite as fast on the mount as a standard stock. I've no problem with this. Like many of us, I sometimes rush a shot so this really is not a disadvantage.

Second, the extra weight means the balance is a little further back. Many trap guns have long and heavy barrels, the few oz of weight helps keep the balance forward, usually wanted on a trap gun.

Third, if the thing is sloped higher in front, it can exacerbate face slap. On a 200 round day, this may mean a bit of discomfort. A comb parallel to the bore or sloping down a hair won't.

Questions, comments, donations?

 

[BigG]

Good explanation. You might also mention that the cheekpiece is not part of the Monte Carlo comb. The proper term for a stock equipped with both is monte carlo comb AND cheekpiece. So many shooters think they are synonymous.

 

[sm]

ADVICE: Once you get it right, leave it alone.

Sums it up pretty well as far as I'm concerned.

I appreciate the history lesson as well - thanks.

Gun fit, well some guns have the comb too low for me, I do not see down the rib - I see the back of receiver. Applying moleskin raises the comb. Some folks might want to try this , if they have a need.

One can buy a stick on pad a little more aesthetic, some take a mousepad , cut and glue on.

Moleskin works for me fine, self sticking, stays put , easy to remove. More aesthestic than electrical tape and a styrofoam cup...I dunno I though it had character...I didn't notice it, I was watching the targets...did bug the folks I shot with tho'.

Same dealie with a rifle, needing a cheekpiece, Monte Carlo comb - or both.

Poor man's Monte Carlo, compliments of Dr. Scholl ( tm)

 

[Fred Fuller]

Dave,

I bought the 'Cinderella' 870 Express I'm working up for my FIL because it had one of the Monte Carlo stocks Remington puts on some of them. It also had a 20" rifle sighted IC choked barrel, which saved me from having to scrounge up a HD barrel for it. It's a pre- plastic trigger plate/post- dimple version- hey, can't have everything. The dimples are no prob, it'll stay a five-shooter.

He tried out my wife's house gun, really liked the Ashley express style sights but found the comb way too low to suit him. Also her stock was a bit too short for his liking (at a 12 1/2" LOP it's no surprise). So the Cinderella MC-stocked deer gun showed up on the rack one day just after this experiment, and soon came home with me. Before long it'll have another new home, thanks to the Monte Carlo stock Remington equipped it with. Barrel wizard Red Lyles at Colonial has worked his magic on the forcing cone already. Gonna trim 3/4" off the stock, install a LimbSaver pad and put a set of Ashleys on the factory bases for him, install studs for detachable swivels and call it fini.

Thread drift a bit...

lpl/nc

 

[HSMITH]

Good post Dave. I don't find a MC stock any slower at all than a typical field stock. My mount is: gun out a bit, up to about the right height, slow back toward the shoulder while still moving up steadily until it hits my face, plant the stock on my face and slide straight back into the shoulder. Done well the pad hits the shoulder and just a split second later a bang and broken/dead bird result. Guys that put the gun on their shoulder then place their face on the stock often find the MC types slower. The shoulder then face mount is bad ju-ju as far as I am concerned, makes for lots more moving parts and potential places to mess it up, not to mention moving your head around when you should be watching the target with head straight up and both eyes open taking advantage of your eyes. At any position other than straight up and both eyes open vision is compromised in both depth perception and clarity. Consistency is key, and taking possible variables out is the only way to get it.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, folks.

BigG, there's lots of opinions on whether the cheekpiece and comb are the same or not.

sm, cardboard and masking tape work. Have seen someone trying out a M/C made from a couple bamboo chopsticks taped in place.

Lee, sounds like a great gift and well thought out.

H, like many self taught shooters, I drop my head to shoot. The M/C helps me drop it less.

 

[Traveler]

The Monte Carlo stock is designed to build a rising lead into the sighting pattern, not specifically to reposition the shooters head. It is most often found on shotguns where the stock is poorly adapted to fitting, or where the sighting plane is such that it cannot be readily adjusted.

It's use is mainly in the Trap related sports, of which live pigeons are one. The use of that type of stock in those sports helps the shooter to visualize the actual target while the barrel shoots to a different point of aim (higher than the sight point). This is readily apparent on patterning the gun.

The ability to see the target (as opposed to covering it with the barrel as done with more conventional "field" guns when shooting rising targets) makes a difference to many shooters, especially those who have trouble with timing and follow through. It is not a cure all, and becomes a liablity when shooting against targets that do not meet the rising profile.

Pigeon guns from the better makers rarely have such stocks, as they are built to fit the individual shooter, have the lead built in in more subtle ways, and tend to conform to European traditional lines. In fact Live Pigeon guns are more likely to be discerned by the grip than by the presence of a monte carlo stock. Monte carlo stocks, like beavertail fore ends are mainly American affections, and (at least in my eyes) demonstrate a lack of understanding of shotgun design dynamics.

It should be noted that the raising of the comb does not make the stock a "monte carlo". It can be an adjunct to proper fit, but this usually shows how poor the original stock fit was. Current production stocks are conforming to the parallel (or straight) comb, which make the average shooter even less likely to understand fit. Unlike the older, sloped, combs, where the individual could move his head up and down the comb until it "fit", the straight stock requires the shooter to build up or remove material to insure a proper sight picture.

 

[Dave McCracken]

"Not specifically to reposition the head"...

IMO, the thing was developed to aid consistency, is that what you mean?

IMO, an M/C comb that is NOT parallel to the bore better be lower at the nose than the heel to avoid face whack. Both of mine are parallel, due to judicious shimming.

"Shotgun dynamics" is as slippery to define as morality.