Moon Clip Modification

[LubeckTech]

Has anyone had a .357 revolver modified to accept moon clips and how do you like it? Who would you recommend to do it? I notice there are several companies doing it and I have a 686 I am considering having modified.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I would recommend against it. First of all, it increases headspace, which will make problems if you shoot full-charge .357s without the moon clips.

Secondly, the moon clips don't do anything for you. If your concern is rapid reloading, a speed loader is a much better choice. Moonclips bend and flex, and are difficult to carry without bending or cartridges falling out.

 

[altitude_19]

WHAT???!!! I've NEVER had a cartridge fall out of a moon clip (HELL, I need a special tool just to get the empty casings out). I've never warped a moon clip and it wouldn't matter if I did, since I have a stack of them. They can be had for less than $.50 a piece. Clock a speed loader reload against a moon clip and then say they are the better option.

 

[rcmodel]

They are a better option in .45 ACP & 10mm.

Not so sure about rimmed .357 magnums though.

Due to the tiny groove under the .357 rim, those clips must be made of very thin, flexible, and delicate metal. And they will only fit certain brands of brass with a big enough groove under the rim.

Also, the longer .357 cartridges in the flimsy clips tend to wobble all over the place when trying to do a fast reload with them.

rc

 

[David E]

First of all, it increases headspace, which will make problems if you shoot full-charge .357s without the moon clips.

Totally and completely untrue. The headspace remains exactly as it was prior to the conversion.

The clips do require certain brands of ammo/brass to work best, but they allow you the option of a faster reload. Much faster, in fact. If you went to the time and expense of the conversion, then it's a safe bet that you'd be willing to put up with the few inherent foibles to gain the faster reload.

You do not give up a thing that you had prior to the conversion. You can still use speedloaders or hand load shells into the empty cylinder.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The headspace is increased by the thickness of the moon clips or a bit more. That's why Peters Cartridge Company developed the .45 Auto Rim with an extra thick rim -- to maintain proper headspace in revolvers cut for moon clips.

 

[David E]

The headspace is increased by the thickness of the moon clips or a bit more. That's why Peters Cartridge Company developed the .45 Auto Rim with an extra thick rim -- to maintain proper headspace in revolvers cut for moon clips.

Sir, you are incorrectly assuming that the 1917 .45 acp revolvers and the current method of machining a .357 to take moonclips works exactly the same way.

It does not.

The full moonclip conversion does NOT, repeat, does NOT change the headspace from what it was at the factory.

You mistakenly assume the .357 round headspaces on the case mouth, but it does not. It still headspaces on the RIM, even when a moonclip is not utilized.

I've owned a S&W Model 1917 and currently own a S&W Model 625. I also own a converted S&W Model 686 and Model 66 to accept full moon clips, so I know and understand the difference.

 

[Jim Watson]

I had a couple of .357s converted. The first one was an early effort and did not leave any rear cylinder face to headspace loose ammunition. What a bust. The second did leave enough rear cylinder face to work with loose rounds, which is what all reputable gunsmiths do now.

The thin clips in the narrow little rimmed cartridge relief grooves and the long skinny rounds do not load nearly as easily as .45 ACP in its thick clips. I guess you could do better with a lot of practice but I found it a lot easier to just get out the .45. I bought a new cylinder for the first gun above and sold the second one.

 

[Sport45]

I considered the modification in order to shoot .45acp in my .45Colt Redhawk but finally decided against it. There just wasn't enough benefit to justify the cost and I really don't need to "speed load" the thing anyway.

 

[Brian Williams]

Shorter cartridges Load faster into a cylinder than long ones, the long ones have more of a difference from straight and centered with the same angle of wobble. A 9mm moonclipped revolver loads much faster than one in 357.

Also the use of a LRNFP over a SWC makes a lot of difference.

 

[David E]

Shorter cartridges (load) faster (into cylinders) than long ones. a 9mm loads (into the cylinder) much faster than 357s.

I hope my added words clarify what you were meaning. (unless I misunderstood)

One way often overlooked to make the shorter 9mm (or .45 acp) rounds load into a cylinder via a moonclip even faster is to roll crimp the loads, eliminating any possible hangup on the case mouth at the edge of the chamber.

 

[Sunray]

Use a speed loader. Moon clips are for using rimless cartridges in revolvers.

 

[Virginian]

Use a speed loader. Moon clips are for using rimless cartridges in revolvers.

My thoughts, too.

 

[danbrew]

Moonclips and the .45 were made for one another. Fast reloading, great fit. Pretty close for the .40/10mm as well, yet moonclips for the .357 go don't work as well. First, as somebody pointed out above, the base of the .357 cartridge has a very narrow band within which the clip clips. They're a pain to load in moonclips. Secnd, those long narrow cartridges don't slides to smoothly into the revolver - especially if you are using an 8-shot .357.

Don't get me wrong, they work on .357, but they're not nearly as fast as the .45. Also, they're not needed since the cartridge has a base that will rest on the rear of the cylinder (unlike auto cartridges). Yeah, I have a few .357 moonclips loaded up - but I more often than not shoot without them. I'm quite certain a speed loader would be loads faster than the moonclip on a .357 in a reload.

 

[David E]

I'm quite certain a speed loader would be loads faster than the moonclip on a .357 in a reload.

Then you're either unusually gifted with superior speedloader skill, or not sufficiently practiced with the moonclips.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Sir, you are incorrectly assuming that the 1917 .45 acp revolvers and the current method of machining a .357 to take moonclips works exactly the same way.

It does not.

The full moonclip conversion does NOT, repeat, does NOT change the headspace from what it was at the factory.

It that is true, no conversion would be needed -- you could take the revolver out of the factory box and use moonclips.

You mistakenly assume the .357 round headspaces on the case mouth, but it does not. It still headspaces on the RIM, even when a moonclip is not utilized.

When did I say the .357 headspaces on the rim?

 

[rcmodel]

Note that revolvers converted for rimmed round moon clips still can headspace perfectly on the rims without the use of the clips. Because the outer band of the cylinder is not removed. The clip sets down in a recess in the middle part of the cylinder. The outer parts of the rims set on the same cylinder surface they always did.





Rimless .45 ACP moon clips don't work the same way, and there would be way excess headspace without clips if you converted a .357 that way.

But, that's not the way they do it.

rc

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Okay. You guys are right.

 

[David E]

It that is true, no conversion would be needed -- you could take the revolver out of the factory box and use moonclips.

Not true, because there is no accommodation of the moonclip, aside from some of the Performance Center revolvers.

 

[danbrew]

Quote:
I'm quite certain a speed loader would be loads faster than the moonclip on a .357 in a reload.

Then you're either unusually gifted with superior speedloader skill, or not sufficiently practiced with the moonclips.

Yes, one, both, maybe. My point is that moonclip use with a .45 is about 10,000x easier/faster/better than moonclipping with a .357.

Personally, I wouldn't convert a .357 to use moonclips as I don't feel the benefit is really there. Having said that, I'm a huge moonclip fan on a 625 and recently bought a 327 that I can use moonclips with. I do - every now and again.

 

[Brian Williams]

One of the things everyone is missing is the fact that you throw in a fully loaded moonclip, shoot six, eject a fully shot clip, throw in a fully loaded moonclip. There are no speedloaders to get in the way or twist or push, just the ammo in a metal clip.

Besides all your empties are in clips and it makes for easy pickup of your brass.

 

[kanook]

I think his name is Jerry, he is very fond of and fast with his mooncliped 357. If somebody sees no use for a mooncliped revolver, don't buy it. I myself do not own one, yet. I see good and bad (mostly good) for this type of revoler for me.