Mosin Nagants Newbie Questions

[dak0ta]

Hi,

I just got interested in these Soviet rifles, and there seem to be a whole array of different models and years of manufacturing.

I've seen the M91/30, M38, and M44

Which is the best version?

I hear that the M44 is not desirable since they are zeroed with the bayonet, so you have to have it out to shoot more accurately.

M38 vs. M91/30?

M44's seem to be the cheapest, and the M91/30 are more expensive.

Also, how easy is it to find ammunition for these rifles? It's the 7.62x54R. Can I go to most gun shops and buy some ammo? And I've heard of Czech surplus ammo that you can buy in cases. They are corrosive, and why would they make ammo that is corrosive for the rifle?

Also what kind of wood is the stock made of?

And what are good prices for all 3 models?

 

[dak0ta]

Oh and regarding the ammo, what is a Berdan primer?

And how does the Mosin Nagant measure up the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, 1903 Springfield, Mauser K98k, Lee Enfield Mk. 4 SLME?

 

[MaterDei]

You ask many questions. I'll try to answer them briefly but for more information go to 7.62x54r.com or to gunboards.com, tons of info there.

All three models are very similar. They all fire the same ammo and other than some differences in the hardware and barrel lengths they are about the same rifle. True, the M44 is most accurate fired with the bayonet extended but so is the 91/30. Both were zeroed with the bayonets mounted/extended.


By today's standards, ammunition is readily available and inexpensive. Go to gun-deals.com for help finding ammunition.

Finally, you ask about the berdan primer and the corrosive ammo. All surplus ammo is corrosive. It's no big deal, you just need to clean your weapon after gfiring it. A berdan primer has two small holes, off center, rather than a single centered hole like a boxer primed brass. berdan primers are difficult, but not impossible to reload.

Good luck and enjoy the hobby.

 

[SGW42]

I believe all Soviet stocks are made of birch.

Some gun stores will sell Wolf 7.62x54R, but the milsurp stuff can be had in larger quantities for much cheaper. More literal bang for your buck. The corrosive stuff isn't a big deal as long as you put a little more effort into cleaning the rifle quickly.

I got 91/30 for $110. That was the best price for the best condition example I could find, it seems the prices have gone up a bit in my area. The average I seem to see is $80. I didn't mind paying a little bit more because it came with the bayonet and all the toys, which I see for sale for like $25 - $35 as a group. So I think I made a good deal.

I wouldn't say the M44 or M38 is better or worse than a 91/30. They all can be accurate, depends on the individual gun. Get which one you like best.

I learned a lot from this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=335997

I'll let all the more knowledgeable people answer the other questions.

 

[GigaBuist]

Which is the best version?

The Finnish M39. Okay, of the non-Finns: The M44's are likely to be in better shape. They started cranking them out in 1994, WWII ended in 1945, and there are plenty out there made after the war. It's easy to find a nice M44.

The M38 is a bit more rare. Just not as many made, and honestly for the short time I owned one (bought it, tested it, gave it away for Christmas) I really liked it. Handy little bugger.

The 91/30's are all over the board. If you want one you should take a really good look at it. The good news is that if it doesn't turn out to be a good shooter you can use it in a pole-vault competition.

I hear that the M44 is not desirable since they are zeroed with the bayonet, so you have to have it out to shoot more accurately.

Accuracy shouldn't be affected, but point of impact probably will be. Accuracy is hitting the same spot (or close to it) over and over again. If that happens to be 4" higher than your point of aim you just adjust the sights. No biggie.

Also, how easy is it to find ammunition for these rifles?

Pretty easy. Right now it's the oldest round still in military use, and with that kind of consumption it's not hard to get your hands on some as a civilian in the US. You probably won't find it at the local liquor store/ammo-shop/gas station (God Bless America!) but local gun shops should have it. If they don't, just mail order a case or two.

It's the 7.62x54R.

We knew that.

And I've heard of Czech surplus ammo that you can buy in cases. They are corrosive, and why would they make ammo that is corrosive for the rifle?

It's corrosive because it was made (probably) back in the 50's, back when the Communists were stocking up and guns and ammo in case they ever got into a shooting war with us capitalist pigs.

 

[mnw42]

I had an M39 and that was a fantastic rifle. I sold it when I became unemployed:banghead: That thing could shoot 1 MOA groups all day long with good ammo!

The M1 carbine in is in no way similar to a MN and a Grand is only simmilar in cartridge power and diameter.

 

[dmftoy1]

FWIW - My M44 will shoot just as tight groups with the bayonet "removed" as it will with it extended. (one screw to remove it). They definately shoot better groups with it extended than folded. The only drawback to removing it is that it leaves the mounting bracket on the barrel. (of course that makes it easier to find in the gun safe when it's in a sock. )

Have a good one,
Dave

 

[baz]

I have yet to shoot my M44 with the pig sticker extended. Last outing I shot a 2.5" group at 100 yards, which is good enough for me. I'm 5'6", and prefer shorter guns (carbines), so I prefer the M44 for that reason.

You are not likely to find ammo locally on the shelf, but it is easily ordered over the internet (unless you live in one of the nanny states, like MA).

 

[Mike 56]

+1 For M39 I seven Mosin Nagant's two of them are Finns a M28 and a M39. The Finns are better shooters and are getting harder and harder to find. Five years a go you could find M39s for 120 dollars. Here is a link that has them for about 250.00 and up. The rifles with pre 1899 receivers can be shipped to you with out a C&R.

Most of the 91/30s i have shot have been pretty good shooters. You can find post war M44s 1946 and newer in like new condishtion these are very nice rifles for under a hundred dollars.

Mike

 

[fireflyfather]

As far as corrosive ammo goes: Spray windex down the barrel when you are done shooting. Then push a dry patch, then a patch wet with hoppes #9. Wipe down the bolt face with a wet patch of hoppe's #9. Clean as normal when you get home. Takes 60 seconds longer than with non-corrosive ammo.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

It really could not matter less, which one is the best! You'll have them all after it's all said and done...Not only are they addictive, but they are cheap. BAD combination.

Get as much ammo as you can afford though, the prices have been slowly rising here lately. I have a substantial amount of x54r and still feel like I should buy more while I can.

 

[Cosmoline]

There is no "best" version. There are dozens of types, not three. www.mosinnagant.net is a good starting point. as is www.7.62x54r.net

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

There is no real "best" amongst them without clarification.

Finnish M39s are the most valuable.

Russian M91/30s are the most common.

M44s might be the cheapest (though the M38s ie without bayonet are close)

Personally, I like the M39s, and bent bolt M91/30s

 

[Cosmoline]

Finnish M39s are the most valuable.

Actually any of the pre-Winter War Finns would be more valuable than most M39's. Ted on 54r.net has a comparative rarity chart.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Thanks for the heads up, Cosmoline

 

[dak0ta]

Between a M91/30 and M44 which would you prefer? The M44 I hear weighs 9 lbs which is quite a hefty amount. But the 91 is really long.

Which is more accurate? Easier to point?

 

[Cosmoline]

Accuracy varies. The M44 is shorter, at least with the bayo folded. I find the 91/30 balances better. The M91 is something different.

 

[RP88]

I'd say for ~80 bucks you get quite a bit out of it: a spear, javelin, pole vault, tent pole, boat oar, baseball bat, war club, shoulder dislocator, shiskabob spike, shovel, finger strength exercise machine when operating a stick, jam, or the safety, and an industrial-sized hammer, and a pretty antique wall-mount if it breaks

edit: oh, cant forget firewood

 

[james_bond]

I love my M-44 ,my dad likes it too, he just went out and got one for him self a week or so ago and started to mod it took off bayonet mount, and cut the stock down made it lighter. I love the M-44 because it is so handy, faster in the hand being short and it was cheap and amo is cheap too,