Mossberg 590 vs 590A1
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meathammer
Member
I've also been interested in the 590. From my understanding the 590A1 has the plastic trigger guard and safety button replaced with metal ones?
I thought those were the only differences between the two. Didn't know about the 590A1 having a heavier barrel.
I wish Mossberg had a little more detail in their specs.
I thought those were the only differences between the two. Didn't know about the 590A1 having a heavier barrel.
I wish Mossberg had a little more detail in their specs.
MrAcheson
Member
From the Mossberg website:
Dunno about the rest, I would assume the metal trigger guard and heavier barrel would be more rugged.
Dunno about the rest, I would assume the metal trigger guard and heavier barrel would be more rugged.
Detritus
Member
don't have direct experience but...
know two gunsmiths that claim the above statement from Mossberg is really just a "CYA statement", so "bubba the budweiser, home gunsmith" don't raise a ruckus, that they TOLD him it would fit, and now he's gone and buggered up his finish, and wants them to re-park the gun.
the claim from both the above mentioned 'smiths is that a heat shield CAN be added to an A1, but it takes someone who has the patience and tools to gently "fit" (aka "bend the sucker out to a slightly larger radius in small increments till it can be attatched without damage" ) the sheild versus just slipping over the the barrel, screwing the front down, etc. kinda like saying it's a 30 minute job rather than a 3 minute one.
Personally the only flaw in that concept/execution that i can see is if the barrel outside diameter is too great directly above where the sheild is supposed to be actually screwed to the barrel assembly (into one of the "barrel band lugs"), thus causing the holes in the two "mounting flanges" (that the right term?) to not line up with a spot that can be drilled at tapped etc..
i've seen at least one 590A1 with the heat shield, but i didn't take a real close look at the way it was mounted, it was a used gun on a table at a show, and about the time i realized it was an A1 i had to move for some reason. so for all I know the sheild it's self could have been modified or even a "sheet metal/ machine shop special" (knew a guy once who built a muzzle loader from scratch on his lunch breaks one summer, think the only thing he bought "off the market" was a barrel blank)
so my guess is that putting a shield on a 590A1 is "possible" but that it very likely could be a PITA, and frankly for my locale (coastal TX) it's be nothing but a rust trap anyway so i'm not TOO worried.
know two gunsmiths that claim the above statement from Mossberg is really just a "CYA statement", so "bubba the budweiser, home gunsmith" don't raise a ruckus, that they TOLD him it would fit, and now he's gone and buggered up his finish, and wants them to re-park the gun.
the claim from both the above mentioned 'smiths is that a heat shield CAN be added to an A1, but it takes someone who has the patience and tools to gently "fit" (aka "bend the sucker out to a slightly larger radius in small increments till it can be attatched without damage" ) the sheild versus just slipping over the the barrel, screwing the front down, etc. kinda like saying it's a 30 minute job rather than a 3 minute one.
Personally the only flaw in that concept/execution that i can see is if the barrel outside diameter is too great directly above where the sheild is supposed to be actually screwed to the barrel assembly (into one of the "barrel band lugs"), thus causing the holes in the two "mounting flanges" (that the right term?) to not line up with a spot that can be drilled at tapped etc..
i've seen at least one 590A1 with the heat shield, but i didn't take a real close look at the way it was mounted, it was a used gun on a table at a show, and about the time i realized it was an A1 i had to move for some reason. so for all I know the sheild it's self could have been modified or even a "sheet metal/ machine shop special" (knew a guy once who built a muzzle loader from scratch on his lunch breaks one summer, think the only thing he bought "off the market" was a barrel blank)
so my guess is that putting a shield on a 590A1 is "possible" but that it very likely could be a PITA, and frankly for my locale (coastal TX) it's be nothing but a rust trap anyway so i'm not TOO worried.
Detritus
Member
oh and BTW the "A1" was a result of the military requesting (aka "do this or lose the contract") those three changes (metal trigger group adn safety, and heavier barrel). the safety and trigger group change was due to the need to furhter "soldier proof" the gun, too may of the plastic bits were getting broken. the heavier barrel should be self explanitory.
deletion of the heat-shield may have just come as a result of the heavier barrel being more of a pain to fit one to.
deletion of the heat-shield may have just come as a result of the heavier barrel being more of a pain to fit one to.
Carnitas
Member
The heavy barrel was necessary to allow spirited use of the bayonet (via the bayonet lug which is also part of the A1).
Detritus
Member
that lug pre-dates the A1.
the A1 was the second USGI version, and the first version had the lug as well.
look at a non-A1, 9-shot 590 and the lug is still there, though for civvy sales they call it an "accessory lug" or "accu-lug". the 6-shot models though, lack the lug b/c they are also 18.5" barrel models and have a single barrel-magazine connection (the thing that slips over the mag to hold the barrel in place, don't know proper term) instead of the two of the 20" 9-shot models, with the rear one sporting the bayo-lug, the front doing the "normal" job of being the bearing surface for the mag/barrel nut which of course acts as the front securing point for the bayonet.
why do i know this, fairly useless to the average joe, info on the 590??..... my wife wants a 590A1 and i had to learn so as to make sure that i don't get the wrong one!
Carnitas
Member
I'd guess that is also had a bent barrel as well. Hence the heavy duty replacement.
BTW, the A1 is fabulous. Its got a solid feel that reminds me of my M1A relative to a poodle shooter.
Detritus
Member
NOTE: i think you're right so i'm not trying to argue, just trying to reason it all out...
very well could be, maybe the army or marine corps (who ever wrote the first spec requirements) figured that if the old Win '97 based "trench guns" didn't need a heavier than normal spec barrel that the new design didn't either, and some little aspect of the physics of each was overlooked, like maybe the bayo-lug design on the 97's spreads the forces of "vigorous use" much better than the Mossy version does. (see exploration below)
I KNOW the design of the 97's combo lug and heat-shield design spreads the forces on the barrel out differently and that the "impact" of a thrust with the bayonet is taken not only by the barrel and braket, but by the END of the mag tube. this allows the magazine to brace the bayo mount so that it does not bend the barrel downward.
now looking at he Mossy design this is the flaw/ possible damage resulting from the flaw, i can see....
With the way the mount is made on the 590, if the bayonet gets stuck, and/or encounters a force that drives the end of the blade off to one side or "down" (if the tip goes "up" the clip at the base of the tang gives way first), depending on how much force and how much the barrel and mag tube flex under that force, the the bayonet can become a lever that drives the rear "connecting band" one way, and the endcap on the mag tube, which is of course encirecled by the (i guess you;d call it a "ferrule" the part that gose over the barrel ona rifle) of the bayonet, the other way, if this happens it forces the two fairly large (and certainly stronger than the barrel OR mag tube) connecting bands in opposite directions, possbly bending BOTH the barrel and the mag tube, but i;d think the mag would give first (typicaly being of lighter gauge material).
that sound logical guys ??
Are the 590A1 recievers marked differently than 590's? One of my gunshops back home has a few 590s or 590A1s, but I'd like to know one all-telling spot check I can do to tell if I'm looking at an A1 (these guys dont always have the most intelligent counter staff, so they might not know the difference).
Also, can Walmart special order a 590 or 590A1 for me? (gun dealers near me think they can charge MSRP for everything, so I might settle for a 590 if I'd have to grab my ankles to get a 590A1)
Kharn
Also, can Walmart special order a 590 or 590A1 for me? (gun dealers near me think they can charge MSRP for everything, so I might settle for a 590 if I'd have to grab my ankles to get a 590A1)
Kharn
Detritus
Member
all the A1s I've seen have a distinct and easy to read rollmark on the left side of the receiver, 1/2-3/4" high "590A1"
I'm pretty certain that Wal-mart can get the reguular 590, very possibly the 590A1, but you'll have to ask to take a look at the "gun catalog" to find out.
every Wal-mart sporting goods Dept that carries guns will have a small, magazine sized, catalog (usually in a 3-ring binder) of all the guns that are carried "in-system" ie the makes and models that are kept in stock at the distribution centers and/or in the network of special order channels. you;d be surprised at some of the things that "in-system" (who buys a $2,000 barretta O/U from Wal-mart??
store i worked in had exactly that happen when i was there)
If you go take a look at your store's catalog, you DO need to make sure that it's been kept up to date, some stores don't keep them up very well.
hope that helps
I'm pretty certain that Wal-mart can get the reguular 590, very possibly the 590A1, but you'll have to ask to take a look at the "gun catalog" to find out.
every Wal-mart sporting goods Dept that carries guns will have a small, magazine sized, catalog (usually in a 3-ring binder) of all the guns that are carried "in-system" ie the makes and models that are kept in stock at the distribution centers and/or in the network of special order channels. you;d be surprised at some of the things that "in-system" (who buys a $2,000 barretta O/U from Wal-mart??
store i worked in had exactly that happen when i was there)If you go take a look at your store's catalog, you DO need to make sure that it's been kept up to date, some stores don't keep them up very well.
hope that helps
Nightcrawler
Member
I think Mossberg's models have changed around over the last decade or so. I think that now, the A1 is the only model to have a bayo lug, whereas the regular 590 does not.
But before, both heavy and non-heavy barreled 590s had the bayo lugs.
According to this page of Mossberg's website, only the 590A1 has the "accessory lug", as well as the heavy barrel and metal bits.
But if you look at the pictures of the non-A1 590s, it looks like there might be a bayonet lug on the front sling loop.
So I'm just confused. I'd probably go with the 590A1 just to get the metal parts and such, though. Personally, I find standard Mossberg stocks too long and would likely replace it with a "bantam" stock.
I don't know why they say the heat shield won't work with ghost ring sight models. I was able to install an aftermarket heat shield on a Norinco shotgun I own, and it has ghost rings (including a big tall front sight post).
But before, both heavy and non-heavy barreled 590s had the bayo lugs.
According to this page of Mossberg's website, only the 590A1 has the "accessory lug", as well as the heavy barrel and metal bits.
But if you look at the pictures of the non-A1 590s, it looks like there might be a bayonet lug on the front sling loop.
So I'm just confused. I'd probably go with the 590A1 just to get the metal parts and such, though. Personally, I find standard Mossberg stocks too long and would likely replace it with a "bantam" stock.
I don't know why they say the heat shield won't work with ghost ring sight models. I was able to install an aftermarket heat shield on a Norinco shotgun I own, and it has ghost rings (including a big tall front sight post).
Detritus
Member
don't mean to be argumentative or difficult, but...
the above linked listing is Mossbergs "Law enforcement" listing which are nothing more than the guns they either find work best for or SELL best TO law enforcement agencies. they are not the only one's with those features.
a few examples from the regular "500/590 Special purpose" page
#53660 590DAâ„¢ 12 gauge "Double Action Style" trigger, Pump Action, 9-shot capacity w/ parkerized finish, accessory lug, , 20" barrel with Modified choke, bead sight. ...MSRP $541
and two listings for the 590A1
#51663 590 A1â„¢ same as #50668 pictured above, except features heavy-wall barrel, metal trigger guard and safety button and field synthetic stock. MSRP $586
#51660 590 A1â„¢ same as #50668 pictured above except features heavy-wall barrel, metal trigger guard and safety button, brass front bead sight and field synthetic stock. ...MSRP $506
Note that NEITHER of these descriptions lists the lug anywhere, but the less popular DA version does, AND that these two A1s are the same exact stock numbers as the ones listed on the LE price list, that are noted as HAVING the lug.
also since that lug is now and i beleive from the begining, always been, part of that band it's on (ie it's machined/cast in, not welded/soldered on) i very much doubt that mossberg is going to take the time to make a third version of that part just to delete the lug. it's just too much trouble to take the thing off when the simplest way is to just leave it on ALL the 20" barrel, 9-shot 590s .
the above linked listing is Mossbergs "Law enforcement" listing which are nothing more than the guns they either find work best for or SELL best TO law enforcement agencies. they are not the only one's with those features.
a few examples from the regular "500/590 Special purpose" page
#53660 590DAâ„¢ 12 gauge "Double Action Style" trigger, Pump Action, 9-shot capacity w/ parkerized finish, accessory lug, , 20" barrel with Modified choke, bead sight. ...MSRP $541
and two listings for the 590A1
#51663 590 A1â„¢ same as #50668 pictured above, except features heavy-wall barrel, metal trigger guard and safety button and field synthetic stock. MSRP $586
#51660 590 A1â„¢ same as #50668 pictured above except features heavy-wall barrel, metal trigger guard and safety button, brass front bead sight and field synthetic stock. ...MSRP $506
Note that NEITHER of these descriptions lists the lug anywhere, but the less popular DA version does, AND that these two A1s are the same exact stock numbers as the ones listed on the LE price list, that are noted as HAVING the lug.
also since that lug is now and i beleive from the begining, always been, part of that band it's on (ie it's machined/cast in, not welded/soldered on) i very much doubt that mossberg is going to take the time to make a third version of that part just to delete the lug. it's just too much trouble to take the thing off when the simplest way is to just leave it on ALL the 20" barrel, 9-shot 590s .
Nightcrawler
Member
I think you might be right.
Well, cool.
Well, cool.
Nightcrawler
Member
What I'd really want would be this:
-Mossberg M590A1 12 Gauge
-Parkerized finish
-Parkerized factory heat shield fitted and installed
-Standard stock replaced with a slightly shorter one
-Ghost Ring Sights
-M9 Bayonet
And I'd be mighty friggin' happy.
-Mossberg M590A1 12 Gauge
-Parkerized finish
-Parkerized factory heat shield fitted and installed
-Standard stock replaced with a slightly shorter one
-Ghost Ring Sights
-M9 Bayonet
And I'd be mighty friggin' happy.
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