Mossberg 5x0 or Winchester 1300?

[igor]

O wise shotgun sages of THR, I ask for thine advice...

Got a good look at a fine variety of more and less practical shotguns at a very decent store today. I bought my Saiga rifle from the same family entrepreneurs and got good service today as well, answers to questions (obviously not all though, that's why I'm here now) and my own peace to concentrate on trying shouldering the different models, trying out the actions and so forth. I'm going back next week and coming home with one.

I'm basically down to two alternatives: a Winchester 1300 with an 18" barrel, 8-rd magazine and a very simple tru-glo front sight, no frills, nothing else. Or a Mossberg 500/590 - they had a 500 with OD furniture and a 24" barrel but will get any variant in short notice.

I tried a Mossy 835, Benelli semi-autos, a Saiga with everything on it, a Remington 870 Express and a very cool Fabarm Pro Forces Practical... but didn't get a good vibration from any of them really. Maybe a little with the Fabarm... but it costs as much as two Mossbergs and has a pistol grip I really don't want. The Saiga 12 I've mused about earlier certainly no longer had that appeal, I get this thing about "pointability" now, I guess...

The 1300 pointed very well and had a good, natural feel to it. The Mossy with 6" more barrel wasn't so nifty but shouldered in a good position as well. It had a vented rib and two beads close to the muzzle, easy to align. The barrel had comp holes on top as well. Yes, I'm going for the search feature next, but maybe someone could throw some bit of immediate thought on this comparison... ?

The Mossberg had a 6-rd magazine and its front end was on a lug under the barrel that positively won't let a longer one be installed. Obviously I need a different version. The back end of the forearm looked interesting, it had a sort of a "skirt" that extends a bit over the front end of the loading port. Is this thought to be an aid in reloading? I only noticed it now, looking at my pics from the store (yes, they had absolutely no problem with me taking some).

One more: what barrel length should I go for? In 12/76, will an 18" be enough for IPSC or do I need more knock-down for poppers? 20"? 22" even? Thinking about HD I'd like to keep it as compact as sensible, though.

Your thoughts will be appreciated.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

mossberg makes a 20 inch barrelled 500 with a 7 round tube. That's the one to buy. once you get it, replace the safety with a metal one from brownells and you'll be good to go.

 

[Dave McCracken]

There's lots of answers to your queries, and there's also none. Nobody can tell you which one will be the better of these two for you.

Sometimes it's easy. If the choices were between an 870 and some Third World Clone shotgun, it's a gimme.

But these are BOTH very good shotguns. If I couldn't, for some implausible reason use an 870, chances are I'd have some of these.

Best answer I can give is the McCrule. Buy the one that FEELS best..

It's a Win-Win situation...

 

[igor]

Thank you, gentlemen, for your thoughts here and in all the threads I recently searched... I still need to form a more thorough understanding on 500 vs. 590 and then compare their pricing towards the 1300. It would seem the 590A1 will exceed my budget in any case.

One particular: is the Speedfeed stock as practical to have as it seems?

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

the speedfeed stock spits rounds out onto the ground.

you'd be well advised to go with a decent quality buttcuff, like an eagle, or a sidesaddle for carrying extra ammo on the gun. were I you, and i could keep it loaded, i'd keep all my spare ammo in a bandolier that i hung on the same nail as the shotgun, and not bother with a sidesaddle.

 

[Bruce626]

One more: what barrel length should I go for? In 12/76, will an 18" be enough for IPSC or do I need more knock-down for poppers? 20"? 22" even? Thinking about HD I'd like to keep it as compact as sensible, though.

igor... barrel length does not increase nor decrease "knock down" only the choice of load does. (ignoring chokes) Compact is good, but make sure you like the "swing" of the gun for other than HD purposes... extra length sometimes makes the swing feel better... refer to Dave McC's threads for details.

 

[Cameron Lamont]

I cannot tell you which one to purchase, as Dave McC is completely correct that feel is everything.

However, I can tell you that I have earnestly been trying to break a Winchester Defender 1300 for right on a year now. It has the simple addition of a 6 round sidesaddle and is currently doing guard duty in the bedroom.

I have managed to stuff tens of thousands of shells through it in the last year, and I am pleased to inform you that it not only functions flawlessly but it still looks (after a good cleaning) just like the day I bought it.

Coincidently I purchased it on this day 11/19/02

I have been sloppy counting rounds in the last couple of months but I have something like 23,000 shells through to date...

This thread says a little more:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41202

Regards,
Cameron

 

[Dave McCracken]

A coupla things....

A quick reminder on fitting the "Serious" shotgun. It should be setup similar to a rifle, since it's shot the same way. The stock should be long enough one doesn't bump one's nose with his/her thumb, and short enough one can mount quickly over clothing and/or body armor. I like a 14 7/8" stock for trap, but my slug shooters run less than 14". For most folks, 13-14" is workable.

While one can use ANY shotgun enough to feel like a body part and handle like Zorro's rapier, IMO a "Serious" shotgun should have a balance point about at the front of the loading port.

The shorter the barrel, the worse blast and flash will be. Load selection can offset this a trifle. The longer the barrel, the harder to manuever in tight places. The best compromise length is about 20-21",IMO.

Good "Serious" shotguns aren't uncommon. Any reliable and durable shotgun will do in a pinch. Good mindset and expertise(only gained thorugh training) are not nearly as common. Get the hardware, skip the addons and mods for now, and work on the software. Get instruction, BA/UU/R until you're #$%^&*ing deadly and have fun.

 

[igor]

Thank you for all the input. I've gone thru searches and manufacturers' sites now: in addition, I found an article in a local military rag with a comparison test of different shotguns. That didn't unfortunately include the 1300... they named the 590 Military (or "Intimidator" , parkerized with heat shield and bayo lug) the winner. They had SPAS, Benelli, 870, Saiga, even an O/U Tikka

I'll get offers on the 1300 and the 590 Military with 20" barrels and make my decision from there. The quotes I've seen so far in the local market seem pretty even, even as the US MSRP: s vary considerably. They seem to want a lot more profit on the Winchester here...

IPSC shotgun around here will always be an add-on to the regular pistol activity and there the COFs will always favor the semi-autos. But in our military reserve 3-gun I'll be well served with the pump, they make it a lot more "practically". In those events the round count for the shotgun will be quite low as the sport is very rifle-oriented. Last year's national championships had something like six rifle stages from 15 to 300 meters, three pistol stages and one single shotgun stage that had a transition to pistol in the end.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to learning new technique and becoming proficient in it. The sports side is only a plus, not the entire purpose... otherwise I'd be investing in a Benelli semi-auto now

edit to add: yes, I just noticed the 1300 isn't made in 20".

 

[Darrin]

Get the Mossberg, then save up for a 20" barrel. I've got a 20" now, but would like to get a longer barrel in the future.

Or, heck, knowing me I'll just get another shotgun...

 

[OrvilleYertleson]

I just bought a Mossberg 500 Field/Security package, and I couldn't be happier with it.

It came with an 18.5" 'security' barrel, as well as with a 28" ported 'field' barrel with a set of chokes.

The gun holds 6 3" shells, and I paid $315 for the whole thing.

It also came with a free pistol grip kit, although that's not really my thing.

The gun shoots great, seems super sturdy, and is a lot lighter and more maneuverable than it's heaver 'tactical' counterparts.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Get the Mossberg, then save up for a 20" barrel. I've got a 20" now, but would like to get a longer barrel in the future.

they have longer barrels for the long mag tube mossbergs.

buying a short mag tube mossberg and then saving up for a long mag tube and barrel is not cost effective.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Decent deal, very good shotgun, Greg.A coupla things...

After you pitch the PG into the trash, take a little time and check the fit. Use the quick check in the 101 threads.(Subtle coaxing to get you to READ the 101 threads)....

Then, pattern the thing with the lightest loads you can buy or make and shoot some static targets to see where it shoots when YOU steer it, and how it feels.

Next, BA/UU/R and have fun.

 

[Darrin]

buying a short mag tube mossberg and then saving up for a long mag tube and barrel is not cost effective.

Mine's already got an 8 shot tube. (It's a 590)

Anywho, just a thought.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

the 500s come in short and long mag tube lengths. barrels from one will not interchange with the other.


The only 20 inch 500 is a long mag tube gun. There are OEM 28 inch barrels for them available.

the short mag tube guns come in 18.5, 24, and 28 inch lengths to my knowledge.

 

[igor]

I ordered the Mossberg 590 today. It's #50665 here and I'll be getting it next week.

What decided was a) two cartridge edge over the capacity of the 1300 when using 12/76, b) safety location and c) pricing. I got decent offers but comparing to US MSRP they still wanted twice the overhead for the Winchester compared to the Mossberg. More boom for the € .

Thanks again for your invaluable contribution which has been essential in my being able to make this choice. I'll be searching for good basic moves and grips next... mounting, firing, keeping it loaded...

edit: importer out of stock... it'll take until January until I get mine. Well, it's ordered and I'll just have more time to dig out info.

 

[clubsoda22]

i like my 1300 defender. for $280 it came with an 18" bbl tru-glo bead and 7+1 capacity. Some problems in the beginning, but they all cleared up after some cleaning and about 50 rounds.

one thing about the 1300 is how fast it is. The gun is a quick pointer. It weighs less than the mossberg because of the alloy reciever which really allows you to manipulate the gun well. Some may say things about the alloy reciever, but consider this: beretta and sig both use alloy in their handguns and no one says a thing. The 1300 action is also used by benelli and FN. Another thing is the speed pump, which uses the recoil to assist in cycling the gun. I think the record was 3 shots in .56 seconds.

 

[igor]

cs22, I liked the 1300 too when handling it at the shop. As I've understood the alloy parts are designed not to take stress, lockup is steel on steel. The action was smooooooth.

But the pricing here is obnoxious. When U.S. stuff is transported across the world and sold on a small, not-so-well-competited-but-well-taxed arms market, the overhead gets to a bit much... I'm paying 640€ for the 590 and the offer on the 1300 was 525€! The asking price was double what you've paid for yours...

Ok, and I have to admit I like the safety placement better. I'm anal-retentive about safety and like to use manual safeties whenever I can incorporate engaging it in the moves naturally, even when others might just rely on pointing in the sector and controlling finger awareness.

 

[MrAcheson]

Igor,

I believe the Winchester is actually made by FN. Can you get an FN marked version for a better price?

 

[clubsoda22]

Winchester isn't made by FN, but the FN and winchester are the same guns.

 

[igor]

No, I haven't stumbled upon the 1300 in FN guise here. Anyhow, the Mossberg is on the way and I'll be happy with that .