jedi
Member
Which do you guys think it is, or better yet what are say the top 3 in accuracy. I assume they are probably bolt action.
Most accurate military surplus rifle
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Vern Humphrey
Member
Springfield would probably come in first -- all I have are very accurate. Next would be the Mauser (but remember, there are Mausers and mausers.) I'd say the Enfield and Nagant would probably tie for third place.
goalie
Member
K-31 Swiss.
Hkmp5sd
Member
Of the ones I own, the three most accurate are my 1903A3, M1 Garand and K98.
DMK
Member
Two of my M39 Mosin Nagants are the most accurate unmodified surplus rifles I have and can easily do 2" groups @100 with cheap surplus ammo. They'll do MOA with better ammo.
My Garand is even more accurate and probably the most accurate rifle I own, but I had it rebuilt by Deans Gun Restorations so it has a brand new .308 match barrel and a sweet trigger job.
My Garand is even more accurate and probably the most accurate rifle I own, but I had it rebuilt by Deans Gun Restorations so it has a brand new .308 match barrel and a sweet trigger job.
Nightcrawler
Member
Well, yeah, but a modern match barrel means it isn't really in original issue condition anymore.
Out of original issue rifles, I've heard that the K-31 Swiss rifles and the Finnish Mosin-Nagants are some of the most accurate ones. Both can be had for under $200, too.
I imagine that the M1903 and the Mauser would be about equal, since the M1903 IS a Mauser action.
I've heard that the Enfields are known for not grouping well, but due to something akin to bullet stabilization at range are known for being remarkably accurate at ridiculous ranges.
Out of original issue rifles, I've heard that the K-31 Swiss rifles and the Finnish Mosin-Nagants are some of the most accurate ones. Both can be had for under $200, too.
I imagine that the M1903 and the Mauser would be about equal, since the M1903 IS a Mauser action.
I've heard that the Enfields are known for not grouping well, but due to something akin to bullet stabilization at range are known for being remarkably accurate at ridiculous ranges.
DMK
Member
Agreed. That's the reason for the conditional but in my statement.
Still, it demonstrates the potential of the design with just a little optimizing. It's not floated, bedded or had anything really fancy done to it. Aside from the new barrel and stock, the rest of the rifle is the original GI parts. Heck, since I've had it rebuilt, I've only been cleaning it with a boresnake. I'm afraid to seperate the action from the stock for fear of letting the magic out.
ShootAndHunt
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Springfield 1903 A4 and Finnish M39.
wanderinwalker
Member
Most accurate Mil-surps:
1) Either a 1903/03A3 or K-31. Despite all of the negative comments I have heard from people regarding the fact that the 03A3 isn't machined from solid-stock (and as such is considered inferior) it is easily more accurate than I. The K-31 is nice and has a trigger as smooth as my target AR. Downside of both are the issue sights. K-31 open sights are tough to manage when accustomed to apeture of 03A3/M-1/et al but the 03A3's sights can't be adjusted to the center of the target.
2) M-1 Garand with proper ammunition. Sights can be adjusted to center impact better than with 03A3, but I find this rifle to be more sensitive to position variations when firing sling-supported.
3) Likely a Mauser variant. Not all Mausers are created equal though, and I have never fired an M-96 Swede. My Mauser experience has been with M98 types in 8mm.
4) M-44, Russian, I think. Loud, fiery, fierce, shoots ok, not great. Distant last on my list of mil-surp bolt guns.
1) Either a 1903/03A3 or K-31. Despite all of the negative comments I have heard from people regarding the fact that the 03A3 isn't machined from solid-stock (and as such is considered inferior) it is easily more accurate than I. The K-31 is nice and has a trigger as smooth as my target AR. Downside of both are the issue sights. K-31 open sights are tough to manage when accustomed to apeture of 03A3/M-1/et al but the 03A3's sights can't be adjusted to the center of the target.
2) M-1 Garand with proper ammunition. Sights can be adjusted to center impact better than with 03A3, but I find this rifle to be more sensitive to position variations when firing sling-supported.
3) Likely a Mauser variant. Not all Mausers are created equal though, and I have never fired an M-96 Swede. My Mauser experience has been with M98 types in 8mm.
4) M-44, Russian, I think. Loud, fiery, fierce, shoots ok, not great. Distant last on my list of mil-surp bolt guns.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Quote:
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the 03A3's sights can't be adjusted to the center of the target.
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Not a problem for a battle rifle, which was designed to take advantage of the .30-06's trajectory.
If you have an '03A3 you can't get to shoot to point of aim at your chosen range (I have one that will and one that won't), you can either replace the front sight blade with a higher one (no trick at all -- in fact, with a file and a washer, you can easily make a new blade) or -- if you intend to hunt with it, make a bead of epoxy, and paint it white (or the color of your choice). That makes a great hunting sight.
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the 03A3's sights can't be adjusted to the center of the target.
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Not a problem for a battle rifle, which was designed to take advantage of the .30-06's trajectory.
If you have an '03A3 you can't get to shoot to point of aim at your chosen range (I have one that will and one that won't), you can either replace the front sight blade with a higher one (no trick at all -- in fact, with a file and a washer, you can easily make a new blade) or -- if you intend to hunt with it, make a bead of epoxy, and paint it white (or the color of your choice). That makes a great hunting sight.
Cosmoline
Member
The K-31's are most accurate on average. They were produced by a wealthy government and never saw any war use.
The M-39's can be just as accurate, but were made over a long period using assorted parts and saw use during the Continuation War. So they tend to have more variation than the K-31's. From 2MOA to 1MOA on average.
Swedes fall into the same category as M-39's, but at the high competition grade level they are probably the most accurate of all military rifles due to their laser-beam of a cartridge.
The M-39's can be just as accurate, but were made over a long period using assorted parts and saw use during the Continuation War. So they tend to have more variation than the K-31's. From 2MOA to 1MOA on average.
Swedes fall into the same category as M-39's, but at the high competition grade level they are probably the most accurate of all military rifles due to their laser-beam of a cartridge.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Quote
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I've heard that the Enfields are known for not grouping well, but due to something akin to bullet stabilization at range are known for being remarkably accurate at ridiculous ranges.
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Enfields suffer from poor quality control in barrel making -- many barrels I've slugged are just too big to accurately shoot a standard .311/.312 bullet -- some will actually shoot better with the old 8mm (.318) bullet!
The Enfield "compensates" -- that is, lower velocity bullets tend to leave the barrel at the top of the vibration node, higher velocity at the bottom. As a result, their trajectories cross at about 800 yards, so in that range bracket, an Enfield does well.
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I've heard that the Enfields are known for not grouping well, but due to something akin to bullet stabilization at range are known for being remarkably accurate at ridiculous ranges.
-------------------------------------------------------
Enfields suffer from poor quality control in barrel making -- many barrels I've slugged are just too big to accurately shoot a standard .311/.312 bullet -- some will actually shoot better with the old 8mm (.318) bullet!
The Enfield "compensates" -- that is, lower velocity bullets tend to leave the barrel at the top of the vibration node, higher velocity at the bottom. As a result, their trajectories cross at about 800 yards, so in that range bracket, an Enfield does well.
cracked butt
Member
Swedish M96 based rifles- M41 sniper, M96 target rifles, standard issue 96's. I have one standard issue M96 that will shoot sub moa if I'm up to it.
03A3 springfield- very good sights, usually very good shooters.
Any full length Czech made mauser 98 clone- 98/22's, 98/29's
03A3 springfield- very good sights, usually very good shooters.
Any full length Czech made mauser 98 clone- 98/22's, 98/29's
Hkmp5sd
Member
Gewehr98,
Did you win the bid on that last scope you were trying for on Ebay? I've been trying to talk myself into buying a sword Tamara has for sale, so I didn't try for it.
Did you win the bid on that last scope you were trying for on Ebay?
I've been trying to talk myself into buying a sword Tamara has for sale, so I didn't try for it.Jim Watson
Member
The ones I have seen, the Swede takes the cake.
K31, '03, Finn rifles all do very well, too.
I haven't seen an 8mm anywhere close to those.
But I am not a milsurper and rely on seeing my friends' in action.
K31, '03, Finn rifles all do very well, too.
I haven't seen an 8mm anywhere close to those.
But I am not a milsurper and rely on seeing my friends' in action.
Third_Rail
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My .303 British Enfield is my most accurate rifle, but then again I only shoot at targets at a max of 100 yards, and I'm plenty accurate with my 91/30 out to that, so the extra expense of buying .311 diameter bullets for the .303 is moot.
No, I gave up on that particular E-Bay auction.
I already have one spare scope for the 1903A4, and really need to focus on my 1898 Krag restoration, among other projects. I'm saving up my per diem right now so I can get the remaining necessary parts and pieces, then there'll be even more pics online.
I already have one spare scope for the 1903A4, and really need to focus on my 1898 Krag restoration, among other projects. I'm saving up my per diem right now so I can get the remaining necessary parts and pieces, then there'll be even more pics online.
I can't pass up an opportunity to put in a plug for the Swedish M96 and M38. No magic bullets, but finely crafted rifles that are a joy to shoot bring out the best of my meager skills.
Salud
Salud
HunterGatherer
member
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For me it is my K-31.
Win75
Member
Swedish Mausers. Mainly the M96's because of the longer sight radius. I have one that is capable of minus half inch groups at 100 yards with Swede surplus ammo.
Finn 28/30's are next in line in my book then the M39's.
David.
Finn 28/30's are next in line in my book then the M39's.
David.
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