"Move to a Better Neighborhood"
- Thread starter Kleanbore
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Trunk Monkey
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To give you something to b**** about
fireside44
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No more than buying a used gun is purchasing someone else's missed shots.
It's a home invasion, a gun and an angry dog will be my first resort. Cameras are just so I make my case.
so... you should rely on the police chiefs, which are almost entirely political, anti-gun, bureaucrats
but you should not rely on the crime stats their departments collect and publish.
this is the exact same problem as these, and countless other topics here:
- telling a total stranger on the internet that they need more training, knowing absolutely nothing about their training. we never do that here right?
- when someone comes to a firearms forum to ask a firearm question about a survival situation, assuming they haven't exercised, or prepped food, medicine, etc when we know absolutely nothing about them
Personally, i think we should do better and avoid all these assumptions to improve our signal to noise.
but the basic fact that some neighborhoods are SIGNIFICANTLY safer than others is indisputable and therefore, the suggestion to move may in fact be good advice. there could be dozens of reasons someone can't move, the vast majority of which don't involve being economically disadvantaged. e.g. maybe you're a student and the neighborhoods around even prestigious schools are generally high-crime. but hey, this is a discussion forum, and like most things in life, you generally get out of it what you put in. If you want reasoned actionable feedback, provide sufficient detail in your OP.
being a snowflake isn't about whether you got useful advice from underinformed total strangers on the internet. it's about letting yourself be offended by nothing.
we talk about mindset a lot. being easily offended is a mindset. when a criminal "interviews" you, there's a good chance he will try to offend you. see trunk monkey's post. are we really impervious to insults etc in person, but get butthurt because a random stranger on the internet gave us bad advice that we took as a slight against our economic status? please.
the foundation of mindset is being emotionally durable.
old lady new shooter
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2 armed robberies a night, that's even worse than where I lived before I thankfully moved. OTOH, by the time I left stabbings were becoming a weekly occurrence. I'm glad you're keeping yourself safe, but I wish you didn't have that stress.
What are "Tweakers"?
Trunk Monkey
member
Meth heads.
I really don't have that much stress. The only time I generally have to really interact with the Street Rats is when I'm at work.
Unfortunately since I wrote the original post both of my dogs have died of old age. And that was the primary thing that was driving my interactions with the street rats in my neighborhood was having to go out and walk my dogs.
Trunk Monkey
member
I buy from pawn shops and estate sales all the time. It's just the engagement/wedding rings that I'm superstitious about.
An engagement/ wedding ring in a pawn shop is literally a marriage that failed. In my mind it's buying a curse. Why would I want to put that on my wife's hand?
Having said that, I've been married for almost 22 years and neither one of us even wears a ring. So in my case it's irrelevant anyway. It's just a personal superstition that's really off topic for this thread so I'm going to shut up about it
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Man, it must suck to get offended by the statements of random, faceless people on an internet forum. People get all kinds of BS told to them on forums like this. Just have to figure out how to sift through it and find the good stuff that you consider valuable.
Officers'Wife
Member
Actually the "move to a better neighborhood" gives me visions of the country dotted with walled cities surrounded by areas of no man's land.
In my mind, moving just puts a problem off until another time. I have seen far too many Chicago people that move here to get away from the crime in their city and their second day here start demanding that the community start implementing the same policies that created the crime in Chicago to begin with. As long as we are "celebrating diversity" rather than coming together to forge common goals, crime is going to follow just as surely as night follows day.
The better strategy, in my mind, is to hold our public servants to serving the greater good. Too many times political expediency opens up systems that in the long run create more of the problems they were supposed to solve.
In my mind, moving just puts a problem off until another time. I have seen far too many Chicago people that move here to get away from the crime in their city and their second day here start demanding that the community start implementing the same policies that created the crime in Chicago to begin with. As long as we are "celebrating diversity" rather than coming together to forge common goals, crime is going to follow just as surely as night follows day.
The better strategy, in my mind, is to hold our public servants to serving the greater good. Too many times political expediency opens up systems that in the long run create more of the problems they were supposed to solve.
Old Dog
Member
Eh, don't believe I used the word "offended" -- perhaps, though, mildly annoyed rather than insulted would have been expressing myself better. I don't get offended easily, actually. And since I've been here since '04, I think I've kinda gotten used to sifting through the BS here, but that won't stop me from raising the B.S. Flag ... Certainly I won't even presume to offer advice on where to live to people I don't know who aren't even asking me for that particular advice.
Hopefully, you will not hear that post repeated as evidence in the event of a disputed incident.
bdickens
Member
Yeah. "Move to a better neighborhood."
Well, if it was that easy it would be that easy.
Well, if it was that easy it would be that easy.
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The chiefs and sheriffs in our outlying areas do not fit hat stereotype.
Their advice on what to do is often more useful than sanitized stats that do not have sufficient detail.
And home invasions are a relatively infrequent crime, compared to most, but that should not lead people to be unprepared for them
Of course. One more time: it may not help much in terms of home invasions.
I was speaking of the character of the advice, and not making assumptions about how different people may react to it.
Thinking about the robbery in Glendale.....
The fact that he was caught on another resident's doorbell camera indicates to me that the perp was simply looking for an easy target in a prosperous neighborhood. That may not be all that common. In many of the home invasions of which I have some knowledge, the crooks had some idea of what they were looking for--from packaging left by the trash, or information from someone who had been in the house,
Also, he acted alone. As I recall, most of the home invasions around here have involved at least two crooks--safer for them that way, and easier to get the loot out fast.
No arrest yet, but I would wager that that Jeep Patriot was stolen.
The fact that he was caught on another resident's doorbell camera indicates to me that the perp was simply looking for an easy target in a prosperous neighborhood. That may not be all that common. In many of the home invasions of which I have some knowledge, the crooks had some idea of what they were looking for--from packaging left by the trash, or information from someone who had been in the house,
Also, he acted alone. As I recall, most of the home invasions around here have involved at least two crooks--safer for them that way, and easier to get the loot out fast.
No arrest yet, but I would wager that that Jeep Patriot was stolen.
Stevie-Ray
Member
It is very insulting! Especially coming from one that probably wouldn't take, or be able to take his own advice. Whenever I use to talk about where I lived, a city bordering Detroit to the north, it was usually one of the first things said in answer. Same thing if I just said I carried in my own home, it would appear within 2 posts. Right, all those people would be able simply pick up and leave their established home, all their friends, their entire investment over the last [insert number] years, and take a loss and start over. First, I don't believe it, and secondly, what we did was start a community policing program. Citizen's Patrol and Neighborhood Watch. Our city already had one, but we joined it, figuring we had to take back our own street. 3 of us on the block were armed all the time, and that helped. In a little over a year we went from one of the worst areas in the city to the best. The CP liaison officer told me, "Whatever you're doing, keep doing it!" I was at all the meetings, and it was a slow uptick every month, but we never got a spike downward.
I've moved up north, but it certainly wasn't because of the crime-it was because it was my plan all-along. Stay til I retire, and only then find another place. My wife's illness was another factor. Those that preach, "If I had to live like that, I'd MOVE!" never even seem to think their dogmatic approach to a serious issue, is an extreme hardship, or near impossible to some.
On the issue of the overall crime rate....
I started his thread about home invasions. Criminals who are looking for valuables in home invasions can be expected to where the money is, and they often do.
Home invasions, though, are really not all that frequent, in comparison with other crimes. And when it come to other kinds of crimes, there are places to avoid visiting, and if possible, to avoid living and working in.
In another thread, I mentioned a string of armed robberies of pizza delivery drivers. They occurred in north St. Louis. Now, Dominoes will no longer deliver pizzas there after 4:00 pm.
North St. Louis is one of the worst areas of the city, from the crime standpoint. Overall, St. Louis has one of the highest crime rates in the country. One's chances of being victimized there in any one year are one in 12, on average. Over several years, the risk is much higher.
I do not go into the city at night, and I generally avoid going there at all.
A couple of years ago, I wanted to take my wife to lunch at an ethnic restaurant. The night before, we saw the place on the news. A carjacking had occurred right next to it. On to Plan B....
Last year, there were over 350 carjackings in the city. So far in 2019, the tally has averaged one per day.
There have been a number of really scary carjackings in the County, too. A former physician of mine witnessed one, and his wife witnessed two, in the same parking lot. In another, which occurred right down the road from there outside a Whole Foods store, a woman was car-jacked, taken to an ATM, and was returned unhurt. After that one, I posted a list of things to do to try to stay safe. A friend took it badly. She loved to sit in her car with her windows down while eating lunch.
Those all occurred in broad daylight.
These had something in common--they occurred in close proximity to a Metrolink station. Easy trip from the city. There are a lot of crimes on the trains, too.
The opening of the Metrolink has had a profound effect on the St. Louis Galleria, a big, fancy mall in Brentwood, MO, and on the large surrounding parking lot. Scary things happen there frequently. It was the subject of an article in The Riverfront Times called "Blood on the Rails".
We never go there.
We have a friend who is a County police officer who will not go to any malls.
And she carries a gun.
I started his thread about home invasions. Criminals who are looking for valuables in home invasions can be expected to where the money is, and they often do.
Home invasions, though, are really not all that frequent, in comparison with other crimes. And when it come to other kinds of crimes, there are places to avoid visiting, and if possible, to avoid living and working in.
In another thread, I mentioned a string of armed robberies of pizza delivery drivers. They occurred in north St. Louis. Now, Dominoes will no longer deliver pizzas there after 4:00 pm.
North St. Louis is one of the worst areas of the city, from the crime standpoint. Overall, St. Louis has one of the highest crime rates in the country. One's chances of being victimized there in any one year are one in 12, on average. Over several years, the risk is much higher.
I do not go into the city at night, and I generally avoid going there at all.
A couple of years ago, I wanted to take my wife to lunch at an ethnic restaurant. The night before, we saw the place on the news. A carjacking had occurred right next to it. On to Plan B....
Last year, there were over 350 carjackings in the city. So far in 2019, the tally has averaged one per day.
There have been a number of really scary carjackings in the County, too. A former physician of mine witnessed one, and his wife witnessed two, in the same parking lot. In another, which occurred right down the road from there outside a Whole Foods store, a woman was car-jacked, taken to an ATM, and was returned unhurt. After that one, I posted a list of things to do to try to stay safe. A friend took it badly. She loved to sit in her car with her windows down while eating lunch.
Those all occurred in broad daylight.
These had something in common--they occurred in close proximity to a Metrolink station. Easy trip from the city. There are a lot of crimes on the trains, too.
The opening of the Metrolink has had a profound effect on the St. Louis Galleria, a big, fancy mall in Brentwood, MO, and on the large surrounding parking lot. Scary things happen there frequently. It was the subject of an article in The Riverfront Times called "Blood on the Rails".
We never go there.
We have a friend who is a County police officer who will not go to any malls.
And she carries a gun.
George P
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I'M not the one in a hell-hole here. I LIKE where I live; decent gun freedoms and no to low crime; means low stress..........
WestKentucky
Member
Get a new zip code, or get a 12ga. I get it. It sucks. Where I lived for a short while in Knoxville Tn was a less than stellar apartment complex right really close to West Town Mall and I-40. I wasn’t comfortable there but it was a short term internship and was all that I could find that was remotely affordable. 12ga bedside and HBAR Match in the corner, .357 in the truck. I carried the revolver to and from the truck openly and people left me alone. I still question if I made myself a target or if I made my presence known, either way I never had any issues, and after 5 months and a completed internship I fulfilled my academic obligations and vacated Tacky Town to get away from the crazy orange people.
My brain says that even in bad areas people target the ones perceived as weak. Even if it’s all a show, a man can make himself be perceived as being an ill-picked target and this will be left alone most of the time.
My brain says that even in bad areas people target the ones perceived as weak. Even if it’s all a show, a man can make himself be perceived as being an ill-picked target and this will be left alone most of the time.
JTHunter
Member
In addition to Kleanbore's OP, there was a local (St. L.) news report of some robberies in Jefferson county (just south of St. L.) that were traced back to some organized gangs from north St. Louis, a notable trouble-prone area. These perps had gone over 15 miles away to do their nefarious deeds.
Trunk Monkey
member
That's not that far out there. Gated communities patrolled by private security are becoming more common.
A couple words about crime statistics and home invasions. I prepared the Uniform Crime Reports for one of the departs I worked for. Contrary to popular belief, reporting information to the FBI for input to the UCR is voluntary. No department is compelled to report. Secondly, the data is not audited by anyone. An agency can report anything they want and no one knows how good the data is. Thirdly the UCR doesn’t cover all types of crime. There are guidelines that tell you what category to put certain crimes into. So don’t take anyone’s statistics as valid.
It’s equally important not to judge the safety of an entire metro area by crime stats. One bad region or neighborhood will tar the entire metro area as super high crime.
Home invasions: The great majority of home invasions are drug related. Drug dealers ripping off other drug dealers. The other big category is inside jobs where the criminals know there is something of great enough value in a home to make a home invasion worth the risk.
The recent trend of criminals traveling long distance for better pickings is very disturbing. Gangs in inner cities have been traveling long distances to steal guns for years. In 2011 we had a local gun shop burglarized by Chicago gang bangers. We are 275 miles south of Chicago. They got over 100 guns. They were caught and admitted to traveling all over the Midwest to steal guns to take back to Chicago and sell.
One of the things they are going to find in the St Louis area is that once they are out of St Louis county they won’t be protected by the Soros funded prosecutors in the city and county and there will be real consequences for their actions.
But that doesn’t make the citizens in these newly targeted areas any safer. Not until enough of them are caught and are no longer in a friendly court system.
People living in these previously safe areas are going to have to develop a different mindset and change their habits.
It’s equally important not to judge the safety of an entire metro area by crime stats. One bad region or neighborhood will tar the entire metro area as super high crime.
Home invasions: The great majority of home invasions are drug related. Drug dealers ripping off other drug dealers. The other big category is inside jobs where the criminals know there is something of great enough value in a home to make a home invasion worth the risk.
The recent trend of criminals traveling long distance for better pickings is very disturbing. Gangs in inner cities have been traveling long distances to steal guns for years. In 2011 we had a local gun shop burglarized by Chicago gang bangers. We are 275 miles south of Chicago. They got over 100 guns. They were caught and admitted to traveling all over the Midwest to steal guns to take back to Chicago and sell.
One of the things they are going to find in the St Louis area is that once they are out of St Louis county they won’t be protected by the Soros funded prosecutors in the city and county and there will be real consequences for their actions.
But that doesn’t make the citizens in these newly targeted areas any safer. Not until enough of them are caught and are no longer in a friendly court system.
People living in these previously safe areas are going to have to develop a different mindset and change their habits.
Trunk Monkey
member
There was a news story in October 2018 about 400 guns that were stolen from a UPS shipping hub in MidLothian Tennessee for sale in Chicago. The thieves drove from Enid OK to steal the guns. At the time
I was a guard at a FedEx shipping hub and the general concencus was that someone at UPS tipped off the thieves.
old lady new shooter
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My thankfully former neighborhood got together and paid for an armed security patrol, that was shortly before I left. I would happily have joined but the boundaries of the patrolled area didn't extend far enough. In the emails that circulated it was repeatedly reiterated that the hired guards could only do anything about activity occurring on one of the enrolled properties, i.e. even if there was a murder going on in the middle of the street they weren't allowed to do anything.
Phaedrus/69
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If you live in a bad, crime ridden area you should stay and make it better. At least that's what people in Central America are told.
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