Muzzleloaders ruined?

[Aim1]

I have 2 Thompson Center Bone Collector Truimph muzzleloaders. For the first few years great. At the end of the year I’d clean them and then run Bore Butter down each barrel for storage. I shot 2 Triple Se7en pellets and Powerbelts for deer hunting.

Well, all of a sudden no matter what I do I can’t get them on paper at 50 yards. I used a ton of Powerbelts and powder attempting to sight them in.

Someone said Triple Se7en will ruin muzzle loader bullets. I’ve never heard of that until now.


Are my muzzleloaders ruined?

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Are you saying you only cleaned them at the end of the year and not every day you fired them?

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

What do the bores look like? Check the crown on the business end as well. A rusted or pitted bore is not a huge deal as long as it's not extremely bad but damage at the crown will make it hard to hit a barn at 50 yards.

 

[Aim1]

Are you saying you only cleaned them at the end of the year and not every day you fired them?

Correct.


But I’d only shoot them once or twice in a one week period and then clean them the end of that year.

 

[Blackpowdershooter44]

Correct.


But I’d only shoot them once or twice in a one week period and then clean them the end of that year.

The problem with black powder, or the substitutes, is that they are corrosive. So even though you only shot it a handful of times during the season, it will unfortunately rust if not cleaned soon after. See if you can get a light in the bore and to see how it is.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Correct.


But I’d only shoot them once or twice in a one week period and then clean them the end of that year.

That may be the problem, even if you only fired them once without cleaning for an extended period. Triple 7 may not be as corrosive as BP or Pyrodex but it's still corrosive. High humidity where you live would also accelerate corrosion.
Shine a light down the bore and/or use a tight fitting patch on the ramrod to see and feel for corrosion.

 

[AlexanderA]

Also, what were you using for cleaning? You should use hot soapy water to remove black powder (or substitute) residue. (Hoppe's No.9 won't do it.) But even that might not help if there's a long interval between firing and cleaning. That intervals gives the rust and corrosion time to really take hold.

 

[J-Bar]

If the bore has been damaged by enough corrosion to prevent your Powerbelts from shooting accurately, you might get acceptable results by shooting bullets in plastic sabots. My first muzzleloader was an abused Renegade from a pawn shop. It would not group conicals or patched round balls worth a hoot, but XTP pistol bullets in plastic sabots performed well enough to take a 9 point buck that fall.

Fighting that damaged bore convinced me to clean my next muzzleloader’s barrel very thoroughly after each shooting session.

 

[Gemmer]

Go to your sporting goods store and buy one of these. Drop it down the barrel and you will see if there is damage to the bore.
https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com...roductDetail/Bobbers/prod9999007374/cat101131

 

[frontiergander]

If the pellets are over a year over, toss them out and buy fresh.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

If the pellets are over a year over, toss them out and buy fresh.

Why?

 

[Bill Raby]

Have to clean muzzle loaders the same day that you shoot them. This is why.

 

[Steve S.]

I have shot a T/C Pro Hunter for years; I used 245 grain PB, 2/ 50 grain Triple Seven pellets and WW 209 primers. Triple Seven would leave a crust ring in the bore after every shot - a ring that prevented the loading of a second round unless I swabbed with water after every shot. My first shot out of a clean bore was always accurate, after that my groups would open up to a point that I was not confident with shots past 50 yards. Over the years, the rifle grouped progressively more poorly at every bench session. I then made a change to Pyrodex pellets and T/C Shockwave (250 grain) bullets; accuracy/ consistency initially improved dramatically but started to slide over time. Then a “bingo” and “duh” moment after I read some articles on dirty breech plugs. I discovered that my breech plug was clogged with hard carbon deposits it’s total internal length - concise hand twisting of a 1/8” drill bit opened it up to like new - the rifle will now drill touching/ one hole groups at 50 yards all day. As far as your rifles, I have gone as long as a year without cleaning my rifle after a deer season (I forgot) and other shorter time periods and have never seen a spec of corrosion in my bore after it had been shot. I can look down my bore after the breech plug is removed - still bright and shiny as brand new - maybe it did not corrode because it is stainless, I am not sure. Anyway, I am not familiar with your rifle design but I would guess that you have a breech plug - remove it and look-see. Also, you should be able to feel any roughness in the bore when you load a round. I hope this info helps you.

 

[frontiergander]

pellets come in an unsealed box. Once you pop the plastic, they tend to suck up moisture from the air and fade out. I had 4 boxes, just a bit over a year old. None of them shot good. Had to throw them all out. That is why I said to throw them out and start fresh. Powder is cheap, bullets are not.

 

[ontarget]

Muzzleloader cleaning is very important, however 1 week of neglect per year is not a big deal at all IMHO. I leave mine loaded all season after checking up my sights and have never had a problem. I bet Jeremiah Johnson didn't clean his Hawken every time he fired it.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Muzzleloader cleaning is very important, however 1 week of neglect per year is not a big deal at all IMHO. I leave mine loaded all season after checking up my sights and have never had a problem. I bet Jeremiah Johnson didn't clean his Hawken every time he fired it.

Corrosion in the bore of a muzzle loader can happen quickly and it is a loss of metal that you cant get back.

 

[mjsdwash]

be careful, like others have said, especially if you use pyrodex. Saw a Pietta Navy ruined after 10 days without cleaning. Covered in rust, inside and out. Real black powder is far less corrosive, not sure about Triple 7, but if its anything like Clearshot (long discontinued), and I have heard it is, its not too bad either.

 

[Snidely70431]

I went looking for companies that rebore rifles, and came to the conclusion that it is cheaper to buy a used rifle than have a rifle rebored. I did find this on Michigan-Sportsman.com :

Get in there with a brush and scrub scrub scrub on that rust. When you have gotten out all you can get some JB borepaste from Brownells and go to work on the bore with that. Keep working between the brush and JB until you have it as good as it's going to get and then take it to the range. The results will shock you. I have had a similar situation twice, once was a loaned gun and I will admit that the other time was my fault(thought it was cleaned, it wasn't). Both times after some serious elbow grease they both shot just fine. The bores aren't pretty and they are tougher to clean to spotless but they both still shoot as good as before.
I looked into reboring, you can buy a new gun for what it costs.

 

[ThomasT]

pellets come in an unsealed box. Once you pop the plastic, they tend to suck up moisture from the air and fade out.

Why would they sell pellets in an unsealed box? Doesn't sound like a good plan to me. I have never bought pellets because I use sidelocks and loose powder. Not inlines. Ever.

 

[JeffG]

As a general rule, I clean my muzzle loaders the evening of shooting. Hot water soap and oil to preserve. Then clean at three days later, three weeks later, with corrosion wipe checks and re-oil at three month intervals. Not to lecture. I learned that rust is a sneaky thief.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

be careful, like others have said, especially if you use pyrodex. Saw a Pietta Navy ruined after 10 days without cleaning. Covered in rust, inside and out. Real black powder is far less corrosive, not sure about Triple 7, but if its anything like Clearshot (long discontinued), and I have heard it is, its not too bad either.

I had a revolver almost ruined just over night from Pyrodex. That's why I only shoot real BP, at least I have a couple days if something suddenly comes up preventing me from cleaning immediately.

 

[frontiergander]

over night is pure exaggeration. I shoot a ton of pyrodex every year, hunt with it at times, 9 days straight and have not had anything turn into a crap bucket over night.

 

[rodwha]

over night is pure exaggeration. I shoot a ton of pyrodex every year, hunt with it at times, 9 days straight and have not had anything turn into a crap bucket over night.

Not over exaggeration whatsoever. I had it happen to me, though nothing exterior. It rusted my barrel horribly and took countless hours to fix.

This is from a test run on steel plates after 4 days in the garage in Missouri during a summer:



As you can very well see Pyrodex ate the metal far worse than BP. His complete testing and findings are available on another forum. This was after he finally cleaned them up, and with T7 he didn’t go quite as far as it wasn’t needed.

As to not being able to clean your rifle. Use an oil such as Ballistol. The fouling will soak up the oil and keep moisture off of it. I tested this myself with 2 revolvers down in Texas where the humidity is quite high, and this was done during the summer and in my garage.

As to my rifle shot with loose Pyrodex, I trusted what a few CASS shooters said, that they had left their guns for quite some time with no issues. I shot my 2 revolvers and rifle and didn’t come home until after dinner and only cleaned the revolvers trusting that my rifle would be fine the next day. Not true whatsoever. It was a mess! And the above picture shows how much worse Pyrodex can be. But that’s not why I hate it. It’s the quality of the fouling I don’t like at all, which may not amount to much in a rifle, but on my revolvers it has a sticky quality to it that’s everywhere. And that it’s energetic properties don’t stack up in handguns for hunters.

A BP gun should be cleaned after shooting so how corrosive it is should be a moot point. And if time is against you oil is your friend.

*EDIT*

It took a few years to not get an orange patch back when I checked after several months of sitting from that rifle barrel. Sitting I used Ballistol, and knowing people said it’s not a good long term storage oil I’d check it a few times each year. It’s finally been coming back clean.

Regardless there’s no more Pyrodex for me. And I still have a small amount of P and RS sitting there.

 

[rodwha]

I went looking for companies that rebore rifles, and came to the conclusion that it is cheaper to buy a used rifle than have a rifle rebored. I did find this on Michigan-Sportsman.com :

Get in there with a brush and scrub scrub scrub on that rust. When you have gotten out all you can get some JB borepaste from Brownells and go to work on the bore with that. Keep working between the brush and JB until you have it as good as it's going to get and then take it to the range. The results will shock you. I have had a similar situation twice, once was a loaned gun and I will admit that the other time was my fault(thought it was cleaned, it wasn't). Both times after some serious elbow grease they both shot just fine. The bores aren't pretty and they are tougher to clean to spotless but they both still shoot as good as before.
I looked into reboring, you can buy a new gun for what it costs.

Bobby Hoyt seems to do it for under $100...

 

[Loyalist Dave]

FIRST have you seen rust on any of the cleaning patches? If you're getting brown or orange on a white patch using something like alcohol, then yes, you have a corrosion problem.

So what do you do if you don't have a corrosion problem?

You, as previously recommended by everybody, should clean the crap out of the barrels, but...it's possible that while you did prevent corrosion, you didn't get the barrels "clean". You can get all of the carbon and ash out...but still have something left behind. So before you look at re-boring, and other stuff....

You may have a buildup of plastic from the sabots, similar to (but quicker in affect) to copper building up in a rifle barrel, or lead build up. So clean them first, THEN using a .50 caliber jag, some 4-0 steel wool, and some Gun Scrubber..., clean the barrel a second time and see if you don't get some plastic out of that thing.

Good Luck!

LD