Muzzleloaders ruined?

[Cowhide Cliff]

Find it VERY hard to believe a barrel is RUINED over night if it isn't cleaned. Now using BP subs and leaving them uncleaned for a couple weeks in high humidity situations or running a spit patch down the bore and calling it "cleaned" for a couple weeks too I can see it happening.

Not ruined the bore but certainly not ever to be the same again. After some scrubbing the patches quit coming out brown but the outside was left with pits and the outside finish was ruined in areas of residue. It is the type of salts Pyrodex leaves behind, I've read long explanations of why but can't remember the terms for the difference in the salt residue. Humidity levels surely have a large effect because vehicles that are parked in climate controlled areas don't rust nearly as bad as others even if both are driven on salty roads.

 

[TheDr]

if both rifles are shooting poorly,stop looking at the powder.
Start looking at your bullets and sabots.
I'd bet that if you got a micrometer out,that your bullets and/or sabots are to blame,and are a bit smaller than normal.
I won't shoot power belts,simply because if you weigh/measure each bullet in a pack...you'll see some variance in size.
Some of that variation is pretty SIG.
And I've gotten them with sabots that were all the same color,but some def thinner walled than the others.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

I have picked up some Knight and T/C muzzle loaders cheap in pawn shops. Universally, the damage looked the same. Where visible, as in a removable breech plug, there is a ring of corrosion at the breech end. All through the bore there are patches of shallow pitting. Despite damage many of these guns give good hunting accuracy. In the action of the in-lines there are fine pits in patches also. I associate this damage to cleaning once a year whether the rifle needs it or not. This may have been a result of Bubba's helpful hints. If you want to see massive destruction pour some Hoppe's #9 on Pyrodex fouling. Telling people faux powder is non-corrosive is a setup for a damaged firearm. On the other hand it allows me to get project guns cheap. Have at it fellows!

Addendum: In my experience J.B.'s will not make much or a dent in the pitting in the damaged barrel. Even after some shooting the pits will remain. I shoot mainly patched round balls. As long as the patch is not damaged you can get decent accuracy out of a lightly formally rusted barrel. I have found this out with side hammer T/C's with lightly damaged bores..

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

One of my Ruger old armies has pitted up bore, I recrowned it and it shoots minute of Jackrabbit at 70 to 80 yards. I really don't think that a pitted bore is all that worrisome as long as it's not chewing up patches.

 

[Karl.T]

I have three TC rifles total of 5 barrels in 3 calibers, all were made in the 80's amd have seen plenty of Pyrodex & BP and a little Triple7. None have rusty bores. Why? Because when I shoot em I clean em the very same day with hot water/murphys oil soap, dry, then lube with Bore Butter. The key to longevity is a thorough cleanup after shooting. A few oily patches down the bore like I do with my modern guns does not cut it on muzzleloaders no matter what powder or pellet you use.

Before I had these rifles I ruined a 36ca cap n ball using modern cleaning method and modern lubes.

 

[silicosys4]

My first BP gun was an old Navy replica that was severely pitted inside the bore, on the muzzle, and on the cylinder face from leaving it overnight without cleaning it after shooting pyrodex through it. I didn't think it would go that bad that fast, so it was a complete surprise when I woke up the next morning and went to clean it and found fuzzy balls of rust all over the aforementioned parts.

 

[NY Yankee]

Never let the sun go down on a dirty gun! If the bore is rusted, use a smaller jag and some grey Scotch Brite patches. cut some "patches" of Scotch Brite and scrub the bore with that until a regular jag and patch go down pretty smoothly. Clean well, oil, done. Gun oil, not Bore Butter. Throw the Bore Butter in the trash.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

My experience....YMMV! Maybe we are being somewhat hard on the Bore Butter, It, like many other shooting products, was over sold. It's sure not a cure all for dealing with corrosive powder residue. It did make decent lube for Maxi balls and cloth patches. That seasoning the bore was baloney from the getgo. I find it handy for covering the tang area of my side hammer guns to make cleaning easier This for the outside of the gun. Also, works on patent breeches.. I like to start cleaning the bore before I leave the range. What I use is half water half Balistol to clean and for patch lube. Use of a range rod and correct jag is absolutely necessary. Applications of water are used after getting home. I find that black powder fouling is soft and will respond to water. In the end I use Ed's Red to get ride of traces of carbon. WD-40 is used to clean up traces of water that may remain. I don't have any problems using Balistol to protect the bore. These guns will last a lifetime given good care. In the pawn shops I see rows on Bubba owned rust buckets inlines. There is no excuse for this gun desecration.

 

[rodwha]

My experience....YMMV! Maybe we are being somewhat hard on the Bore Butter, It, like many other shooting products, was over sold. It's sure not a cure all for dealing with corrosive powder residue. It did make decent lube for Maxi balls and cloth patches. That seasoning the bore was baloney from the getgo. I find it handy for covering the tang area of my side hammer guns to make cleaning easier This for the outside of the gun. Also, works on patent breeches.. I like to start cleaning the bore before I leave the range. What I use is half water half Balistol to clean and for patch lube. Use of a range rod and correct jag is absolutely necessary. Applications of water are used after getting home. I find that black powder fouling is soft and will respond to water. In the end I use Ed's Red to get ride of traces of carbon. WD-40 is used to clean up traces of water that may remain. I don't have any problems using Balistol to protect the bore. These guns will last a lifetime given good care. In the pawn shops I see rows on Bubba owned rust buckets inlines. There is no excuse for this gun desecration.

As Ballistol will emulsify allowing the water to evaporate leaving just the oil I quit using WD-40. It helps with residual water without the need to clean it out afterwards as well.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Thanks for your comment. I have been using WD-40 to deal with water from cleaning. I thinking your last sentence is speaking of Balistol. I'm interested in trying Balistol as I think you are suggesting. Could you elaborate. We have been using WD-40 for many years but am always interested in better ways to skin the cat. Thanks.

 

[arcticap]

I can't see blaming Bore Butter for guns that weren't properly cleaned or for turning guns into rust buckets.
Bore Butter can actually help dissolve residue and hard deposits that are left behind after a person has cleaned their barrel but has not cleaned it well enough to prevent rust.
After cleaning a gun and applying Bore Butter, I've often gone back after 1-3 days and swabbed the bore to find traces of residue that Bore Butter has helped to loosen up and dissolve.
It's only an indication that the fouling wasn't all removed the 1st time.
A 2nd application of Bore Butter and a recheck might loosen up even more residue.
Bore Butter contains mineral oil which is recognized as a rust preventative and is also an ingredient in Ballistol.
But TC never claimed that Bore Butter was a cleaner or a neutralizer of corrosive powder fouling.
Sure, there are better products than Bore Butter to prevent rust, but at least it stays in place and doesn't run once applied.
Here's some relevant info. about Ballistol:

Ballistol (meaning 'Ballistic Oil') is a mineral oil-based chemical which advertises that it has many uses. It was originally intended for cleaning, lubricating, and protecting firearms.--->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistol

Ingredients
(according to a specification from December 2002)

• pharmaceutical white oil: CAS RN 8042-47-5
• Oleic acid: CAS RN 112-80-1
• C-5 alcohols: CAS RN 78-83-1; CAS RN 137-32-6; CAS RN 100-51-6
• different essential oils to perfume Ballistol

-------------------------------------
"The Decomposition of Ballistol

........The components contained in Ballistol decompose in the following fashion:
Mineral Oil (Liquid Paraffin) Most paraffin-based lubricants contain a dirty or even chlorinated paraffin, which is toxic and has a tendency to gum up and harden........"

Quoted from the Ballistol MSDS:--->>> http://www.ballistol.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/MSDS_TECH_BIO.pdf

 

[troy fairweather]

anyone know why the color of borebutter changed, its not as good any more. tho i only use it for patch lube and for my cap and ball revolver. i use shortening now

 

[Mowgli Terry]

I'm not going to use Bore Butter in any grade of barrel here on the hill for cleaning. That would be plain jane or match grade barrel. Yes, I've been at this for a while.

Addendum: It should have been"Ballistol" in my posts.

 

[rodwha]

Thanks for your comment. I have been using WD-40 to deal with water from cleaning. I thinking your last sentence is speaking of Balistol. I'm interested in trying Balistol as I think you are suggesting. Could you elaborate. We have been using WD-40 for many years but am always interested in better ways to skin the cat. Thanks.

Indeed I was speaking of using Ballistol in place of WD-40. I did as you and used WD-40 after cleaning my guns. As I shot monthly I used WD-40 as the protectorant, but later tried Ballistol and would use rubbing alcohol to remove WD-40 before piling. As we know Ballistol will readily mix with water it can be used in place of WD-40 in that it will eventually allow the water to evaporate which will leave behind just the Ballistol. I use a nicely soaked patch to swab the barrels and chambers. So now it’s just warm slightly soapy cleaning water followed up by Ballistol and put away for next time.

 

[arcticap]

anyone know why the color of borebutter changed, its not as good any more. tho i only use it for patch lube and for my cap and ball revolver. i use shortening now

The T17 Natural Lube 1000 Plus is a blue color in photos and specially formulated for use with 777 powder.

There's also pine scented, is that a green color like the color of the tube? I never used it.

Since I stockpiled the regular yellow Bore Butter long ago I haven't bought any more to notice any difference.

Which type or color of Bore Butter are you using, the T17 blue stuff?





It does look like they may have changed the labeling on some tubes.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Thanks, Now I understand about Ballistol replacing the WD-40. Frankly, I'm still chicken but will work going in that direction. I experimented with 777 several years ago using loose powder in a Knight. Did not have any problem getting the bore clean with water. However, did have corrosion on scope mounts and nipple wrench. The balance of that 777 fertilized the plants. Most of my shooting is done with patched round balls. Much of this shooting is done with a flintlock. That took me out of the loop on the faux powder. You folks my have my share of this faux stuff gladly.

 

[TheDr]

Heres a trick I learned a LONG time ago.
About twice a deer season,and once before I store my MLs for long periods,I do this:
Buy a cheap fiberglass ramrod,wood will work too,but I always bought cheap fiberglass ones cause I'm..well..cheap.
Boil water.
Squirt a dab of Dawn dish soap on a rag and swab your barrel to coat the entire inside with Dawn.
Pour boiling water in it and let it sit about 15mins.
Now take that cheap ramrod,attach your wire brush.
Now attach the other end in a cordless drill.
Go at medium speed and use an up down motion. Do it maybe 30 seconds to a minute.
Now flush your barrel with more boiling water a couple times.
Dry it out,and swab with a patch of WD 40.
Your brush WILL NOT hurt your barrel at all,and I guarantee you'll have a shiny new barrel and crud free.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

Like I say guys, leave 'um dirty. Makes for me having project guns. I have also unloaded in lines for my favorite pawn shop.. The last clean out job had two pellets of something with one of those expensive soft point bullets in a sabot. The gun was salvageable. I'm one of those unlucky people who have discovered faux powder will start rust before getting home to clean the gun right YMMV

 

[troy fairweather]

The T17 Natural Lube 1000 Plus is a blue color in photos and specially formulated for use with 777 powder.

There's also pine scented, is that a green color like the color of the tube? I never used it.

Since I stockpiled the regular yellow Bore Butter long ago I haven't bought any more to notice any difference.

Which type or color of Bore Butter are you using, the T17 blue stuff?

View attachment 815224

View attachment 815226

It does look like they may have changed the labeling on some tubes.

View attachment 815237

o its the normal tube but ow its orange and hard.

 

[arcticap]

o its the normal tube but ow its orange and hard.

It sounds like it "decomposed" like a piece of old cheese.

It's time for a new tube!

 

[troy fairweather]

It sounds like it "decomposed" like a piece of old cheese.

It's time for a new tube!

they are all that way i have checked different stores

 

[arcticap]

they are all that way i have checked different stores

This photo is up on the TC website right now and it shows that it is still yellow:--->>> https://accessories.tcarms.com/product/natural-lube-1000-plus-bore-butter-5-oz-tube-natural-scent-2/
Perhaps the stores have old stock?
It doesn't look orange in the Thompson Center photo of it.
Has anyone else seen any brand new tubes of hard & orange TC Bore Butter?
I doubt that they would change the color & hardness of what is probably the most widely distributed & best selling commercial patch lube of all time.
If they did then that's too bad.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

The last tube I bought was the same yellow tube and same consistency. The tubes I see in the big stores are the same as in the picture. Right, it's good stuff used right.

 

[troy fairweather]

if i have any i will take a photo. one was 100% fresh i caught the guy taking it out of a new box

 

[arcticap]

If TC changed the recipe for Bore Butter and you can't find the old tubes of it then it's time for folks to switch to Traditions Wonderlube.
It seems that the 5 oz. tubes of Wonderlube have been discontinued and have been replaced by 4 oz. jars.