My 2 cents on bore cleaning (with more Teslong pics)

[Nature Boy]

Also, I will say again, those VFG pellets , Kroil , and JB Bore Polish work great

I’m going to order some of those

 

[hps1]

What caliber ? and what ammo / reloading powder ?

Also, I will say again, those VFG pellets , Kroil , and JB Bore Polish work great ( earlier post in this thread ) Being able to adjust the "fit" of the pellets helps dramatically.

They do fill the bore better than patches/brush or jag. The intense pellets have an abrasive embedded in the felt for a bit more stubborn fouling.

Regards,
hps

 

[d2wing]

Yesterday I used my new bore scope to check the bore on a rifle I don't shoot much. I was shocked at the amount of copper in it. It was cleaned regularly. I have a variety of cleaners. none of seemed to do much even following instructions. Finally I used ammonia with some Montana bore cleaner and JB Paste on VFG pellets. That did it with a few passes. I am going to look into wipe out.

 

[Bartojc]

You did it Nature Boy. In a momentary lapse of judgment I ordered myself the same unit today. I need to prepare myself for how my rifles will look when I get a good look at them.
Jeff

 

[Gtscotty]

I bet there’s a color adjustment on the camera program.

What caliber are you shooting in that RPR?

ps. That is a carbon ring in your first pic. You may also want to put a fired case in there, come in from the muzzle end and see where the mouth falls

What caliber ? and what ammo / reloading powder ?

Also, I will say again, those VFG pellets , Kroil , and JB Bore Polish work great ( earlier post in this thread ) Being able to adjust the "fit" of the pellets helps dramatically.

It's the factory 6.5 Creedmoor barrel, I re-checked my notes and I think I missed a range trip this summer, the actual round count is ~2,010. Most of the first ~1,600 - 1,700 or so were 140gr Nosler CCs over 42.5gr H4350, the balance since then have been 140gr Nosler RDF over 42gr Reloder 16.

I couldn't find any of the pellets locally and wanted to shoot again this weekend (without killing brass) so I soaked the bore for 2 days with wipeout and an additional day and a half with Boretech Eliminator. In that time I brushed a few times and put probably 10 patches through it. After all of that, there was still a bit of hard carbon in places, so I resorted to something I've never tried before Montana Extreme bore polish. Now it's pretty clean, ready to get dirtied up tomorrow.

The cracking stops about 3"-4" in front of the case mouth, I think the carbon ring, if that's what it was is about as gone as i can get it. The barrel looks rough, but still shoots well, I was bracketing a clay pigeon at 800 yds last weekend in heavy wind, and finally got lucky with my windage and hit it after several shots.

A few thoughts:

- Boretech Eliminator seems to work better than my usual Wipeout Patch Out. I used to use Boretech, then went to Wipeout because I could buy it locally, I just picked up one of the tall-boys of Boretech and will be using that on tough cleaning jobs. I still think Wipeout is #2, much better than most other products I've tried.

- Bronze brushes work much, much better than nylon brushes.

- I've never used an abrasive compound in my bores before, but it really did the trick on the hard fouling this time. I'll definitely keep it around for the once every ~1,000 round deep cleans, although I can see how you could do damage using it too much.

-Turning the light up on the Teslong gets rid of the blue tinge in pictures.

-I have about 300 more 140gr RDFs to burn up, then in might be time to pick up a replacement barrel from Proof and start over, the question will be: Stick with the 6.5 Creed I know and love, or branch out to the 6 Creed laser a lot of folks are having great success with?

 

[marvin02]

I have also been bitten by the bore cam bug and ordered one.

 

[Walkalong]

When a barrel gets in that shape it is hard to keep it shooting as it is harder and harder to get the cracked up area clean.

 

[Legionnaire]

So maybe it's better to NOT overclean a fire-cracked barrel (or any barrel for that matter) to let fouling and gilding smooth the surface? My trainer in a long range rifle class said he had over 1,000 rounds on his uncleaned barrel, and he was adamant that we should NOT clean our barrels during the five-day hundreds-of-rounds class. He emphasized shot-to-shot consistency over all else. Final exam on the last day began with a cold bore shot and we had to be confident of knowing where it would land relative to point-of-aim.

His was a very different philosophy based on the idea that a tactical rifle was going to be shot regularly if not daily; not hunted with and then put away until the next season. He was a competitor, too, but back before PRS became popular. But I'm guessing that his recommended cleaning regimen might vary by application.

 

[Demi-human]

When a barrel gets in that shape it is hard to keep it shooting as it is harder and harder to get the cracked up area clean.

Earlier this morning I was reading this thread with an old trac phone I still keep to surf with. When I saw @Gtscotty’s pictures I thought “Yup, nice and clean.”

Down stairs, waiting for bacon, I saw the new posts and reread it, this time on an IPhone XR.
When I saw his pics this time I thought, “ Good Lord! That barrel is crumbling apart!”

So I imagine a good screen would be useful to view these thing with, too. (I’m getting the iPhone WiFi version...)

 

[hps1]

His was a very different philosophy based on the idea that a tactical rifle was going to be shot regularly if not daily; not hunted with and then put away until the next season.

Dedicated use does make a difference. Used to shoot 300+ round matches w/o cleaning (until end of match). Know lots of hunters don't clean their hunting rifles for entire season (2 months in fairly humid climate). I choose to clean after such matches but between hunting trips to prevent corrosion. Some of my hunting rifles shoot cold, clean bore an inch or so off fouled bore POI, my favorites shoot same POI clean or fouled, however but I know which is which.

I couldn't find any of the pellets locally

https://www.brownells.com/ is a great source for all cleaning needs so keeping a want list running and taking advantage of their free shipping when offered works well.

Regards,
hps

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

After reading all of this and looking at the bore appearances from the perspective of my experience as a Tool and Die Maker I am left to wonder if the copper does not reduce friction given the surface appearance of a lot of the pictures. With hardened tool steel the appearance would be considered heat checking and whomever did the finish grinding would get their butt chewed.However, if the rifling is created with a broach I would gues that the cutter surface was not real sharp.

 

[RussellC]

I suspect it is very close to wipe out, in a non foaming mix, but I can't prove that of course.

Probably more like WIPE-OUT PATCH-OUT? it is non foaming, supposedly "no brushing" but I still find it necessary!

Russellc

 

[Gtscotty]

When a barrel gets in that shape it is hard to keep it shooting as it is harder and harder to get the cracked up area clean.

I'm not worried about getting down to white metal, I just did that this time because I wanted to make sure any trace of carbon ring was gone, and I got a bit carried away. I think I'll add a deep cleaning in to my routine every 1,000 rds or so, but for most cleanings I just soak in a good cleaner overnight, brush a few times, patch a few times and put it back in the safe, I don't see the bore scope changing that. One thing I've read over and over researching bore scopes is that they can't tell you which barrels will shoot, and which won't, as long as this one keeps shooting and the weird pressure spikes go away, I'm happy.

Know lots of hunters don't clean their hunting rifles for entire season (2 months in fairly humid climate).......

........
https://www.brownells.com/ is a great source for all cleaning needs so keeping a want list running and taking advantage of their free shipping when offered works well.

Regards,
hps

I always hunt with a fouled barrel, that's one of the reasons I strongly prefer stainless rifles. I usually do a pretty deep clean before my last pre-season range trip, on that trip I'll do a final verification that each rifle is hitting where it should be at 100, 200, 300, and 400, maybe 10-ish rounds. When I get back I put a dry patch or two through the barrel to knock out any loose fouling and that's how they stay for the season unless I have to check zero because of a spill or something. I'm hunting with factory rifles, and most of them take a few shots to settle down, probably wouldn't make a difference at 100 yds, probably would at 400 yds.

After reading all of this and looking at the bore appearances from the perspective of my experience as a Tool and Die Maker I am left to wonder if the copper does not reduce friction given the surface appearance of a lot of the pictures. With hardened tool steel the appearance would be considered heat checking and whomever did the finish grinding would get their butt chewed.However, if the rifling is created with a broach I would gues that the cutter surface was not real sharp.

I think a thin layer of fouling is probably beneficial for bore smoothness. Not sure what your mean about people getting their butts chewed over the fire cracking, that's the product of 2k warm rounds down the tube, some in quick succession during matches, Ruger is not putting them out looking like that. Also, these barrels aren't cut or broached, they're hammer forged around a mandrel.

 

[d2wing]

A slight fouling may make a rifle more consistent for a certain round count, but all my rifles noticeably lose accuracy with at about 40 or 50 rounds depending on the rifle and ammo. I am hoping that a real deep cleaning will bring back a couple that have lost some accuracy by my pre scope cleaning procedures.

 

[Gtscotty]

No mysterious pressure, no ejector marks, no heavy bolt lift, the deep clean seems to have cured my carbon problem.

The barrel might not be at it's peak, but it's not doing too terribly given the shooter it's saddled with, and the hand numbing conditions.

Shots 5-15 on the clean barrel, taken in ~3 minutes, the last 4 fell into the cluster on the right, so hopefully that was it settling in.


Anyway, I'm happy with the bore scope and it definitely helped trouble shoot my problem.

 

[Nature Boy]

No mysterious pressure, no ejector marks, no heavy bolt lift, the deep clean seems to have cured my carbon problem.

I know the argument over how much and how often we should clean a barrel is one that really has no definitive answer, save for “when your rifle tells you that it needs it”. It would seem yours was talking to you and glad you were able resolve the pressure issues.

I’ll say this, I’m convinced it’s a pure guess on how effective your cleaning method is without having a bore scope. Cleaning till you have a clean patch doesn’t mean you don’t have hard carbon building up.

The argument for a frequent cleaning regiment is that it’s easier to keep that build up at bay. Let it get out of control and it will eventually affect accuracy and need to be addressed. At that point it is a real chore to get out, especially in the grooves

 

[forrest r]

Don't know about bore scopes, I went with a $10 inspection camera from e-bay that comes with a 10m cord that hooks into computers or smart phones.

I ordered 1 to keep track of a shilen match grade 308w bbl. I was interested in throat wear with cast bullets that are traditionally lubed and powder coated. When I started running the coated bullets above 2700fps I started getting black strings in the bbl, the coating was actually starting to burn off.



I tried several different solvents and copper brushes to get the black streaks out. At the end of the day the only thing I found that worked in getting those black streaks out was boretech eliminator.


I have over 2000+ rounds of cast & coated bullets down the tube of this rifle. 1500+ of those loads were with 125gr bullets doing +/- 2700fps, 160gr doing +/- 2600fps, heavier bullets doing +/- 2500fps. There is no heat cracking in that shilen bbl, the leade/throat looks like the picture above that was taken at the 1000 round mark.

 

[bfoosh006]

Grudgingly... I have to say, some of the best groups I have fired have been from a spotlessly clean bore.

And a bore scope helps me from "over" cleaning.

6.5CM Horn. AG 140gr, 10rds , 100yds 22" Criterion barrel, PSA upper and lower, assm. and tuned by me.



And 10rds Horn 155gr AG , 100yds, from a .308 FN CHF CL 20" PSA upper and lower assm. and tuned by me.

 

[Walkalong]

The two out of the group the first clean bore shots?

Sorry, the Devil made me do it.

Great shooting.

 

[Nature Boy]

I’m trying something in my next round of cleaning to address the first shot variation on a clean bore.

Read a post on ASF where guys are using Lock Eze fluid on a patch as their last step and they say it puts the first shot into the group.

I bought a bottle on Amazon. Figure it would be worth $5 to try

 

[Legionnaire]

Interesting. Look forward to hearing your results.

 

[d2wing]

I tried Moly but results were inconclusive. Also it can be corrosive. Graphite might be better. Let us know.

 

[hps1]

I tried Moly but results were inconclusive. Also it can be corrosive. Graphite might be better. Let us know.

In the late 80', early 90's Moly was touted as the best thing since pockets on shirts on the high power XTC circuit. The carrot that caught my attention was supposedly extended barrel life and I bought in. I was not impressed; no measurable extension of barrel life that I could detect. Some claimed improved accuracy, but I saw no difference there, either.

The only upside was less copper fouling (let me stress, this was without benefit of a bore scope). Cleaning was a bit easier (cleaning thoroughly after every range session, as I do).
There were several downsides, however, I never experienced the carbon ring that others complained of with moly but, as stated above, (1) Some found moly can draw moisture, causing corrosion. (2) Moly reduces muzzle velocity, requiring a bit more load development and additional powder to achieve previous velocities. (3) I was fortunate, my target rifles shot same first clean round POI as following rounds, but I cannot say that for several hunting rifles, mine and some belonging to others. Some required multiple (5-10 rounds) before they would settle down and shoot to zero. (4) Added expense of eqpt. to apply moly and it is super messy to handle/reload.

Regards,
hps

 

[Old Stumpy]

Hoppes #9 or any similar bore cleaner, bronze brushes, and light oil has all that I have ever used.
I find the endless parade of techno-wizard bore cleaners over the years to be merely the same as "new and improved" laundry soap. They come and they go, and in the end it's mostly merchandising.
Of course there might be one or two that actually are better.

 

[rbernie]

Hoppes #9 or any similar bore cleaner, bronze brushes, and light oil has all that I have ever used.

How many times have you used a borescope afterwards, to evaluate how well this works?