My .36 conical design

[arcticap]

The Clements Ruger uses the .490 ball and a .488 custom bullet.
Who knows what the land & groove diameters of the barrel actually measure. --->>> http://www.clementscustomguns.com/rugeroldarmy.html

The .395 patched round ball has a lot of zip and is known to be an exceptionally fast & accurate ball in the .40 ML rifles.

A .396 ball weighs 96 grains.
A .380 ball weighs 82 grains.
A .373 ball weighs 78 grains.

The .40 PRB rifle is considered to be powerful enough for medium game including smaller deer by some, but benefits by being able to produce higher velocity.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Navy six 2, heres the link to my original design specs but it only works for ubertis or piettas that have reamed chambers, if u have stock piettas or want it to be able to be used in both stock piettas AND ubertis then use the same link but when it comes to giving him custom notes in ur order just tell him u want the same design as in the link only u want the bottom band to be .362, middle band to be .370, top band to be .380 and be .510 tall...that will give u my exact bullet and weigh 130 grains even. Use this link, its bullet 38-130R
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-130R-D.png

 

[TheOutlawKid]

I too think the pointed bullet was somewhat a flaw in the design for .36 bullet...and also the round nose in the following .38 cal bullets. The way u explained how the pointed bullet makes the wound stretch and doesnt make as large a wound is spot on...it just slips through with out causing much damage. Had they gave the original pointed colt cartridge bullet a wide flat meplat it would have been more effective...even for the .38 that followed. I actually change all my pietta bullet plungers to Uberti plungers as they allow me to seat kaido conicals and my custom conicals better...they dont deform them or mark them at all. The 51's just need a little fitment adjustment as the uberti plungers are a hair thicker than piettas but the uberti 61 plunger fits the 61' pietta without a problem and a direct drop in replacement. The uberti plunger helps hold straight the bullet while seating due to "hugging" the tip of the bullet in place...doesnt give it much room to slip out of alignment. I recommend this trick..even if u just shoot round balls. I sand away the sharp ring edge of the plunger as well so that it doesnt "cut" or mark a ring onto the ball or bullet. Leaves no mark whatsoever.

 

[Navy Six 2]

Thanks, Outlaw Kid. I figured that was the mold and just now ordered it with your specs. I only have Ubertis(one exception) in .36 so I know those dimensions will work. Appreciate all your posts on this matter so far.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Ur welcome navy six! Glad to have helped.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Im a bullet guy myself...dont get me wrong i like shooting even round ball...but im in the same boat as rodwha where i want the bullet to fill both the A and B he listed and i feel a good flat wide meplat conical meets those requirements. I know if i went the route of building me a custom .40/.41 cap n ball that i would definately get a custom bullet mold or molds to go with it...im sure id go the custom conical route and not even mess with round balls. And im guessing the gov went with .36 instead of 40 probably to save a little lead and to keep a little more meat between chambers..their metallurgy wasnt as up to snuff as it is today....but i could be wrong cuz i really have no idea as to why they chose 36 over 40 cal.

BTW, on a side note...anyone else notice that E.M.F. now has STAINLESS STEEL fluted .44 cylinders for open tops? I called a while back to make sure they werent just replacements for the "old silver" in the white guns they sell...nope...they said they are bonified stainless steel. Thought id throw that out there for anyone wanting a stainless steel cylinder for their open top 44s. Heres to hoping we start seeing some stainless steel open tops on the market. Im hoping we will one day see a 61' navy in stainless.

 

[Navy Six 2]

Gee, are you kidding me?!? I placed an order for this mold on Tuesday late afternoon,1-29-19. It arrived this morning-Friday, 2-1-19!! That's less than three days total from the time I placed the order to when it showed up on my doorstep! That's got to be some type of world record for a mold cut to CUSTOM dimensions. Holy Cow! Thank You Tom!! Now, if I can only get some weather that's not below freezing so I can go outside and use it!

 

[rodwha]

It’s been a while since Tom made mine, and I don’t recall it being that fast, but still quick for a custom design and order. Very happy!

 

[Navy Six 2]

My last mold from Tom at Accurate was a few months ago. That one arrived in about two weeks and I thought THAT was blazing fast!

 

[TheOutlawKid]

My mold only took about a week...was supposed to take 3-4...but i guess hes faster than what he advertises just to be safe.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Im really interested in what u think of the bullet design...please let us know once u cast some up and shoot some

 

[arcticap]

mec fired some .36 Buffalo pistol bullets weighing 125 grains with an Uberti .36 Remington and took some chrony readings.
He was able to achieve a 7 inch group at 50 yards while chronographing although they shot higher than balls.
Then he shot a 2" group at 60 feet offhand using an Uberti Colt 1861 Navy with a shoulder stock.
The reason for posting about it is because the bullet weights are very comparable.

Posted by mec:
1.--->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/36-remington.742370/#post-9325797
2.--->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/36-buffalo-bullets.127840/#post-1561983

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Thanks articap, that was some good info. I find my bullets to be very accurate...i mainly use conicals and after testing quite a few different designs i ended up favoring kaido conicals, but this new design has now made me replace my use of kaidos. Its my new permanent bullet that does all i need or want. Holds plenty of lube, is very accurate, easier/easiest to load, and weighs almost as much as a .44 round ball for that extra kinetic energy compared to .36 roundball...i couldnt ask for a better bullet.

 

[ThomasT]

We’ve often read of heard of the ball being said to take the fight out of a man whereas the conicals would zip on through leaving plenty of fight.

If you shoot me either one I promise to stop fighting. When I was a kid about 14 years old another kid shot me in the back of the arm just above the elbow. It was like 9 levels of pain above being shot with a BB gun on the bare skin. The shock to my arm was incredible. And that was the end of the slingshot wars for me. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be shot with a sure 'nuff gun.

 

[rodwha]

If you shoot me either one I promise to stop fighting. When I was a kid about 14 years old another kid shot me in the back of the arm just above the elbow. It was like 9 levels of pain above being shot with a BB gun on the bare skin. The shock to my arm was incredible. And that was the end of the slingshot wars for me. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be shot with a sure 'nuff gun.

Maybe it was that the stakes and adrenaline weren’t high. Might be surprised how things change under certain circumstances.

 

[woodnbow]

Ask someone who’s been shot. Even a .22 rimfire hits hard enough to create a shock effect and it could be a half an hour or so before it wears off and the pain becomes more intense.

On the other hand, sometimes when people realize that they have been shot, it scares them so much that they may incapacitate themselves after receiving a relatively minor wound.

 

[rodwha]

Ask someone who’s been shot. Even a .22 rimfire hits hard enough to create a shock effect and it could be a half an hour or so before it wears off and the pain becomes more intense.

On the other hand, sometimes when people realize that they have been shot, it scares them so much that they may incapacitate themselves after receiving a relatively minor wound.

I haven’t started the coffee pot yet and so I can’t think of the fellows name who compiled the “one shot stop” data back in the early 90’s, but I do recall one death was by a starter gun. An older guy fell dead of a heart attack thinking he had been shot.

A lot of the effectiveness of guns comes from contemplating death.

 

[ThomasT]

I haven’t started the coffee pot yet and so I can’t think of the fellows name who compiled the “one shot stop” data back in the early 90’s, but I do recall one death was by a starter gun. An older guy fell dead of a heart attack thinking he had been shot.

I bet you are thinking of Evan Marshall. I have talked to him on the phone a couple of times. He was nice to talk to. And while some ragged on his work I enjoyed reading it and took a lot from it. I have his "Stopping Power" book and get it once ever couple of years and reread it.

His Forum. http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/

 

[woodnbow]

I haven’t started the coffee pot yet and so I can’t think of the fellows name who compiled the “one shot stop” data back in the early 90’s, but I do recall one death was by a starter gun. An older guy fell dead of a heart attack thinking he had been shot.

A lot of the effectiveness of guns comes from contemplating death.

Yes. It’s not easy to stay calm... I guess it depends on how much coffee you drink, or else it’s sort of random, some people do and some don’t. I’ve heard people say that training can help in that regard but I’m not so sure. I’ve heard some of those same people say that training can proactively prevent a PTS reaction. I think it can’t hurt.
Well, far afield. I do like the look of that bullet, my new 1862 Po-Po is a pretty good shooter, this bullet might give it a bit more bite.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Woodnbow, im sure it would be great in ur uberti...u wouldnt have to change any of the measurements in the drawing i posted since i believe the uberti police model has chambers cut to .373 or something around there...i know theyre bigger than piettas standard .367-.368. Although my friend uses my custom measurements (bottom band .362, middle band .370, top band 380) in both uberti and pietta without issues and they work great.

 

[woodnbow]

Out on the road right now but when I get home I’ll take the measurements... nice work.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Navy Six 2, have you cast and tried out any of the bullets? What dimentions did you order it in?

 

[Navy Six 2]

No casting yet, Outlaw Kid. Weather has been too--cold, rainy, snowy, windy--take your pick. I cast outdoors so am waiting for the weather to clear up a bit. The dimensions I ordered were 378-370-360. I ordered that bottom band at .360 as I have Ubertis which seem to all have a tapered cylinder. I am sure this will work(famous last words?) as I have cast Dick Dastardly's EPP-UG36 at .375 then ran the bottom band only through a .358 die. I did this because the little bullets were hard to load when slippery with lube and not much wiggle room under the barrel/rammer with 51 Navies. So I ordered your design with this in mind. I also am casting some of Tom's Accurate Mold # 38-120-C which is a heel design I use in 38LC. The heel is .358 and bullet diameter is .375.This bullet is virtually identical in length to your design. For the heck of it I shot some in the 51/61 Navies. They loaded pretty easy on top of 19grs 3F Olde Enysford with some lube smeared across the chamber mouths. With both those bullets I was getting under 3" groups at 10 yds shooting free handed with that small bottom diameter.
I am real anxious to get started experimenting with your design. It will be used primarily at Cowboy matches where the extra weight will help with the knock down targets and register a "louder" hit on the steel. One of the clubs I shoot at(Quentin Mavericks) has gone a little "Old School" with more knock down pistol targets--I love it! I am certainly no gamer, but it is sometime frustrating for spotters to not hear the the 80 gr round ball make contact. Your design should also address the lube issue as there is plenty of lube carrying capacity. By the way, just curious--how are you lubing your design? I am going to try a Lyman Lubrisizer initially as I hate pan lubing. Any advice here would help save me some time. Wait a minute, I'm retired and this type of experimenting is what I do for fun! Just kidding, but how do you lube them?

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Thank you for the kind words Navy Six, i hope my the bullet meets ur expectations. As far as lubing ya know ive just been pan lubing and also making these portable lubes sticks by filling some generic bulk package of chapstick/lip balm containers. What i do is mix stiffer mix of gatofeo lube which is an equal part of mutton tallow, beeswax, and parrafin wax and pour it into the empty chapstick tubes...let it harden....then just rub it along the side of the bullets till it fills in the bullet grooves. It seems tedious and time consuming but i dont mind and i have the technique down pat already. Ill probably get a lyman luberisizer just as u mentioned but just havent got around to it. Hope ur weather clears up soon...sure am interested in your range report.

 

[rodwha]

Thank you for the kind words Navy Six, i hope my the bullet meets ur expectations. As far as lubing ya know ive just been pan lubing and also making these portable lubes sticks by filling some generic bulk package of chapstick/lip balm containers. What i do is mix stiffer mix of gatofeo lube which is an equal part of mutton tallow, beeswax, and parrafin wax and pour it into the empty chapstick tubes...let it harden....then just rub it along the side of the bullets till it fills in the bullet grooves. It seems tedious and time consuming but i dont mind and i have the technique down pat already. Ill probably get a lyman luberisizer just as u mentioned but just havent got around to it. Hope ur weather clears up soon...sure am interested in your range report.

I haven’t tried this method yet myself but have saved several lip balm tubes just for that. I’ve been pouring the Gatofeo’s mix into a soap mold and cutting that into small blocks and hand “coloring” them onto my bullets, which is tedious and begins to soften in the hand.

I bought a Lee sizing die set but I don’t see how it would work so I haven’t tried that either. Been considering trying pan lubing for next time as I’ve figured I might use punched cereal box cardboard overpowder cards.