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My Father Thinks I'm on An FBI Watchlist

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Earlier today, I introduced my father to some of my posts on TheHighRoad, as well as other websites I've posted on. And we discussed some political beliefs a little. Upon seeing my opposition to the War in Iraq, my belief that Bush is selling out America to corporations that do their best to pursue interests counter to the good of the country, that our southern border is being left open for those same corporate interests, and that we are becoming closer to a fascist nation with each passing of a new law that schreds the bill of rights, he said, "Son. They aren't playing around. You put this stuff up and use an alias, they can still track your IP addresses you use, including your home computer."

"You might be right about where we're headed. But they can brand you a terrorist and put you in prison for what you've said, and done."

I told him. "These are words, and overall, to most of the population, my libertarian beliefs sound a lot more like traditional Conservatism than anything else. I'm like a non-theocratic Pat Buchanon, and I don't think he's goin' to Gitmo. Cindy Sheehan I'm not. I haven't hurt anyone, I'm not at protests. I'm on a couple blogs, and a couple forums, saying the same thing as alot of other folks. Would I like some major site to pick up my stuff? Sure. But, come on dad."

Thats when my dad says, "You're treading on dangerous ground, and you need to keep your mouth closed. If you were a liberal, it'd be okay. But you, and everyone else saying what your saying are the most dangerous to them (the neocons), you're calling them on not doing what they said they would. Ya'll are pointing it in their noses. They don't want people thinking. They want people following. As I said, you're probably on a list. If you stop now, maybe they'll forget about you."

I told him, "If the worst case scenario plays out, bythe time they aren't paying attention to me or anyone else, this won't be my country anymore. It's because the government has watch lists at all for unpopular speech is the reason me and everyone else who posts or blogs do what we do."

The conversation went on a while after that, but I honestly wonder, after some of the things I've read about, (not conspiracy wierdo stuff, but things the government is admitting to, that it is proud of).

I wonder, are we (and other sites) being watched? And if so, do ya'll think those amongst us that display a dislike, to strong hatred of Bush's policies get put on some "Potential Domestic Terrorist" list?

I've contended for a while now, the excesses and groundwork of a Bush Presidency drunk with power will lead to a Hillary Presidency that will closely resemble Hell. You think we're setting ourselves up?

(I know I sound rather tinfoil hat right now, but with things like Total Information Awareness Act on the horizon, and the neo-con obsession with law and order at all costs, I think it's time to put mine on)
 
I would be quite surprised NOT to be on the list

If stating the truth gets you there!
I don't remember the original Mordichai; but I know of the stand he made.
So lets hang together,else we will surely hang apart!
robert
 
J. Edger Hoover started the 'watchlist' program in the 1960's. EVERY President has used it, to a greater, or lessor degree. Are firearm and political sites monitored? I would be surprised if they were not.
I personally am one of those right wing AH's you write about. Do I agree with your views? Not at all. Do you have a right to your views? Yes you do. I have never heard of the Internet Police taking someone away, but ANYTHING you, or I write, is probably being read.
 
proud neo-con here, the US is the Hegemon, it has the Mandate of Heaven and has the obligation to spread it's benevolence around the world. When the tsunami hit indonesia america was there lifting supplies because of our military's global reach, nobody else in the would could have done that no matter how much they brag about their proportional foreign aid spending. There is way to much unthinking neo-con criticism, so many people use the word and don't even know what it means.

so yeah, you're on the neo-con hit list, probably just means you're signed up to get a free subscription to the Weekly Standard ;)

You seem to be under the impression that there's a clear connection with surveilance and neo-con goals, there isn't. A neo-con would probably emphasize the "we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" idea of homeland security.
 
And if so, do ya'll think those amongst us that display a dislike, to strong hatred of Bush's policies get put on some "Potential Domestic Terrorist" list?

Not sure about "some "Potential Domestic Terrorist" list?", but you're on my list.:eek:
 
I'm sorry to say this otomik.... Uh, no I'm not.

Look, you say your a neo-con, I know what that means. You support America as the global hegemon "spreading democracy." You are willing to take what you look at as minor affronts to your privacy in order to "protect" yourself from terrorists. Problem is, that philosophy is based upon ignorance that can be easily manipulated.

Look, if I'm President Bush, right after 9/11, before i send troops to Afghanistan, before I think about Iraq, I'm gonna seal the borders until such time as we can control who gets in and out of the country. Not try to eliminate piece by piece people's privacy that are citizens here. The fact that wasn't done should make you ask some very serious questions about what is going on here. That is #1.

#2: The myth that you can spread Democracy via the barrel of a gun is insane. Liberal Democracy (democracy with inherent rights that are not voted on) cannot be forced upon a people, it can only arise from gradual cultural change. We liberated Iraq from Saddam, but instead of leaving afterwards we decided to "give" them Democracy. Can't happen. Soon as we pull out, northen Iraq will become Kurdistan, and the rest of the country will delve into a bitter civil war between Sunni and Shia creating a Shi'a bloc of Iran and what is left of Iraq which will want to perpetrate an extremely nasty terrorist reprissal against us. And we'll be amazed when they nuke an American city and the President will say they "hate freedom" and decide to shred the constitution even further, when our interventionist policy made this enemy in the first place.

#3: Regardless of the motivations of President Bush, he has given the federal law enforcement broad sweeping powers to go after Middle Eastern Terrorists. But you know how bureaucrats do. They will use that power in a Democratic Presidency to go after the Right. You'll be very surprised when all gun owners become "domestic terrorists." The government only grows, it never voluntarily shrinks, and once you give the Democrats the weapons to come after you, they will.

If you don't like RealPolitik, sorry. But I can't help it if you're wrong. We are creating these enemies. We should've listened to Washington's suggestion to stay out of foreign affairs past basic trade. There is no "mandate from heaven" and such religious drivel only flies in the face of the first amendment.

As to protection of yourself from the terrorists, and "fighting them there so we don't fight them here," rhetoric, here is a quote from Ronald Reagan you should be able to appreciate.

"The government powerfull enough to give you anything you want is powerfull enough to take anything away."
 
Let's see. I have a CWP. I have filled out probably 100 4473's and surrendered a bound book for the 13 years I was an FFL. I post on gun boards and my IP address is showing. I routinely use my credit card for large ammo purchases. The NSA gathers info about "suspect activity". In the interest of not appearing to "profile", I'd be surprised if I am not on a database somewhere. I'm sure in the one at Falling Waters (thats where the bound book and 4473's go). Joe
 
All of us here are probably on some watch list, deep down in the underground bunkers of the FedComplex. Our mere presence here likely dictates it. So be it - stand for something or fall for anything, and all of that.

However, while stating your opinion may make you feel good, it is often best to keep your opinion to yourself. Discretion is still the better part of valor. Try this approach instead:

Ask other's what THEIR opinion is. You learn far more and might be surprised that you make a friend.
 
Well, lessee: The adult workforce is around 140 million. 60% vote. The vote is split about 50-50 that Bush is good, Bush is bad. So that's around 42 million who grump about Bush et al.

There're around 80,000 gang members just in the greater LA area. And, it's said, some 12 million illegals.

There are roughly 80,000 feds who are authorized to tote badges and guns, in the alphabet agencies--and that includes EPA and OSHA as well as the DEA/FBI/etc. They're sorta out-numbered.

All things considered, I'd say that our natterings here in L&P are pretty innocuous compared to the Real World Out There.

So natter and chatter. The only folks ya gotta worry about are us mean old moderators. :D

CUL. Gotta get back to the Watch List...

:), Art
 
G-d save us from the moderators!

They might just break down your door, stomp on your cats and execute you with a GE minigun while... :D :D

I agree that while we might be on lists, it is a lower priority than say.... Muslims discussing killing Americans. After all, that sort of talk is very well regulated by the Moderators.

That being said, I'm kind of an absolutist on this sort of thing. A "watchlist" is alien to the BOR. To me, the government shouldn't investigate much of anything without a warrant that has an oath of affirmation, and I just say we are headed in a very nasty direction.
 
Absolutely. All of our names are on government lists - income tax lists, property tax lists, and personal tax lists, to name just a few. Those are the lists that the government is really interested in, because those are the lists that the government uses to take our money for its own purposes.
 
We liberated Iraq from Saddam, but instead of leaving afterwards we decided to "give" them Democracy. Can't happen.
And therein lies the fatal flaw of the whole neo-con approach to the Mideast. Once Saddam was toppled, the only way to have a successful outcome was to stay long enough to install a democratic, or at least friendly, government. It should have been obvious to anyone, as it was to Bush 41, that the chance of implementing that goal, short of bankrupting the country, was (is) vanishingly small.

As far as being on a list is concerned, I know for a fact I was on a list back in the 70s when all it took was being a teenager with long hair. If believing in freedom gets you on a list in this country, that's a list I need to be on.
 
The myth that you can spread Democracy via the barrel of a gun is insane. Liberal Democracy (democracy with inherent rights that are not voted on) cannot be forced upon a people, it can only arise from gradual cultural change. We liberated Iraq from Saddam, but instead of leaving afterwards we decided to "give" them Democracy. Can't happen.

Democracy sure wasn't going to happen as it was. And if we would have pulled out directly afterwards, the country would have gone right back to where it was, probably worse. "Go in, topple Saddam, leave", would have been a major mistake. We have left countries too soon before and it cost us dearly in credibility. I find your views on this extremely short sided. There may have been other mistakes made, but not leaving directly after toppling Saddam, wasn't one of them.




But I can't help it if you're wrong. We are creating these enemies.

Sounds like a liberal talking point. Bad USA...bad USA. :rolleyes:

And if so, do ya'll think those amongst us that display a dislike, to strong hatred of Bush's policies get put on some "Potential Domestic Terrorist" list?

I'm envisioning a wolf in sheep's clothing.




Thats when my dad says, "You're treading on dangerous ground, and you need to keep your mouth closed. If you were a liberal, it'd be okay. But you, and everyone else saying what your saying are the most dangerous to them (the neocons), you're calling them on not doing what they said they would. Ya'll are pointing it in their noses. They don't want people thinking. They want people following. As I said, you're probably on a list. If you stop now, maybe they'll forget about you."

I'm on a couple blogs, and a couple forums. Would I like some major site to pick up my stuff? Sure.

"If the worst case scenario plays out, bythe time they aren't paying attention to me

As far as the rest of your original post goes, after re reading it and looking at how it was written, I would say you are just making a post to spout your views and be heard. You even use your dads word to spout your views, if they're his words. I would also say you sound paranoid.

No offense, that's just what I'm left with after reading your post.
 
The fatal flaw of the neo-con approach is that it is emotionally obtuse and secretly needy, the product of too much theory, too much education, too much head-trip. What is true in a relationship is true in politics: You can't "liberate" someone who is not ready for liberation; you can't make someone love you. You can only be as true as possible to your core principles and let what happens happen, in God's own good time. Bush is needy abroad and neglectful at home. You can't export what you don't have inside.
 
I think your father can rest easy.

The Feds are busy right now trying to find people who .. you know, are actually trying to kill people and blow things up. It'll take a heck of a lot more than some "the president is a poo-poo head" posts on some internet discussion board to even get their attention.

Geez, if that was all it took, the "lists" would be so big they'd be any use to anyone. At any given point in time, half of America is saying the president is a poo-poo head -- no matter who the president is at the time or what the fed.gov is doing.

The whole "I'm on 'The List' because I'm a Rebel" seems to me a pretty common ego trip for folks on both sides of the isle, and it's been such for decades. Nothing new.
 
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