My new black powder rifle

[T.R.]

I bought this Thompson Center flintlock yesterday from a fellow who never shot it; been sitting in a closet for 30 years. Caliber is 45 which should do the job on late season whitetails here in Pennsylvania.

This is my first flintlock. I'm hoping to have fun figuring out right combination of bullet and powder to shoot accurately at 75 yards. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

TR

 

[mykeal]

.440 round ball, .018 pillow ticking patch dry lubed and cut at muzzle (1:6 Ballistol to water, soak ticking strip and then lay out to dry - not hung up!), start at 50 gr/volume fffg real black powder and work up to 90 gr/volume, either ffffg or fffg in the pan. Rich Pierce flint. Any good mineral based oil - such as a machine cutting oil - will work in lieu of Ballistol. Spit patches also work well.

 

[BADUNAME30]

Welcome to the dark side TR.

Real nice smokepoll there.
Here's a link to the manual.
It has loading data in it fer yer rifle.

http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Hawken_Manual.pdf

I have found that the most accuracy i got from my .50 Hawken was with round ball. Maxi's were allways 'ok'.
DO NOT use powder pellets in that gun !!!:banghead:
I don't care what anyone else tells ya.They are made for inlines
and are desgned to be ignited from the rear,not the side.



Oh yeah. Git ya a tube o' T/C Bore Butter.
You'll love it and so will yer smoke pole.

I just read the manual TR and it offers nothing.

I dug up this chart for ya.

Hawken, 45 caliber
Round ball loads (.440", 127 grains):
50 grains FFg - 1605 FPS - 732 ft.lbs
60 grains FFg - 1720 FPS - 841 ft.lbs
70 grains FFg - 1825 FPS - 947 ft.lbs
80 grains FFg - 1929 FPS - 1054 ft.lbs
90 grains FFg - 2003 FPS - 1140 ft.lbs
100 grains FFg - 2081 FPS - 1231 ft.lbs
110 grains FFg - 2158 FPS - 1324 ft.lbs

Maxi-Ball loads (240 grains):
80 grains FFg - 1564 FPS - 1195 ft.lbs
90 grains FFg - 1659 FPS - 1345 ft.lbs
100 grains FFg - 1743 FPS - 1485 ft.lbs

Hey, we're gonna be in Lancaster fer a few days next month.
Can ya direct us to any gun shops that we need to visit ?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Ahh, another apprentice to the black arts. Just a tip, pick up a black english flint to try after that TC sawn flint cracks and breaks.

There are those things you absolutely need to shoot, and those that come in handy, and those that you might use once in your life. Don't let a salesman peddle $150 in accessories to you. You will need powder, balls, patch material, primer powder, a ball starter and a ball puller (for dry balls, all newbies get them sooner or later.) a measure. If you get real black powder, 3fg will work both in the charge and in the pan as a primer powder.

We could write a book for you here, but three hours on the net is equal to about 15 minutes at the range with an old gray beard mentor.

There are several muzzleloader matches spread across the state and attending one and mostly watching and listening will serve you well. Black powder shooters tend to be a very outgoing friendly bunch in their element. ask a few questions and they will pull you into it.

In the enthusiasm to get started you will want to acquire everything ASAP. Part of the fun is making for your self. A ball starter is as simple as a dowel stuck in a piece of broom handle. Patches can be cut out of old jeans, When I started I used an empty 45-70 case as a powder measure.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

If you are in Lancaster, there is a shoot this weekend up at Blue Ridge, you are not far from Dixon's Muzzleloaders, (twelve miles east/beyond Cabelas and far better selection of black powder items, and infinitely better advice.)

this club has a few matches coming up and is about 14 miles south of the rt 30 bridge on the York side of the river.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeqx0dc/tomahawksblackpowderclub2/

Not far above the Holtwood bridge.

 

[BADUNAME30]

Zimm, ya fergot to tell 'im to find someone with some casenite, ( that knows hot to use it), and git his frizzen hardened.
I never met a T/C frizzen that dint need it.
That, and jist a tech o' 4fg in the pan sure speeds up ignition.
Allmost fergot.Take that factory touch hole TR and toss it into the trash.
Git ya one o' them allen wrench types to replace it.
It also adds to lessen ignition time.

A white tail can and will jump a flintlock so speed is of the escence.

 

[BADUNAME30]

Zimm, you got a address for Dixon's ?
I'm gonna be in Lancaster next month.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Dixon's info:

http://dixonmuzzleloading.com/

Dixon Muzzleloading Shop, Inc.
9952 Kunkels Mill Road
Kempton, PA 19529
610-756-6271

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

Since you are in Lancaster Co Pennsylvania you might want consider a period accurate Lancaster long rifle for your next purchase.

Nice looking rifle

 

[frontiergander]

my 45 really loved the 225 and 275gr powerbelt with 80gr 3f.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

TR, what Jim is referring to is the fact that TC frizzens are case hardened. They frizzen is wax cast or investment cast from mild steel, which won't spark very well. They infuse a shallow layer of carbon into the surface of the mild steel by case hardening it. Quenching a red hot piece in Cyanide, bone meal or heating it in Casenit does the same thing. Some of the early TC frizzens had very shallow layers of hardness and once the flint scaped through that, the frizzen would not spark reliably. Your frizzen may last through 100 shots or several hundred shots, but eventually it will most likely need attention. Fortunately, TC has still been honoring the life time warranty that came with the guns. They have also changed the design slightly so the flint strikes the frizzen at a better angle. You might get an entire new lock when you do get warranty work. You could also reharden the frizzen, or even have it half soled, (which I have had more luck with.) I half soled TC frizzens thirty years ago and they are still sparking better than factory new.

This eventuality is down the road a piece. Don't be dismayed about it. It is something that can happen with even the most expensive custom guns that are shot frequently by competition shooters. (although they may easily get 7,000 shots before a problem arises) Right now enjoy your gun.

I have been shooting black powder for more than 40 years and I still learn more about it almost every week. For some folks black powder becomes a bit of an Obsessive-Compulsive Syndrome. (Like JimWest's appetite for cap and ball revolvers.)

Harrisburg hunters and Anglers has a very active winter shooting league for muzzleloaders. There is an annual late winter black powder exhibition at Columbia Fish and Game and every beginning of May a fair size rendezvous at Muddy Run Park put on by the Lancaster County Longrifles.

 

[BADUNAME30]

What are ya tryin to say zimm?
Huh?
C'mon, don't be shy, just spit it out.
Hahahaha.
C&B obsessive huh?
I'll show you.
Jist fer that i'm gonna go buy a smoke pole. lol

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

Jim I think he is tryin ta say you have a serious problem that might be in need of a 12 step program

 

[BADUNAME30]

I tried that St8.
Loaded the pistola.
Hung A target, took 12 steps back and fired.
Jist made me want more

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

I think the smoke is as addictive as the gun
now once you start snatching up front stuffers then I will say you are uncurable black powder addict

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

oh and lets not forget about breech loaders and henry rifles and hand loading 45-70 cartridges

 

[BADUNAME30]

I allready gots me a reeeeeeal hankerin gnawin at me fer a .36 FEL.
Gal's got a super clean Seneca up the road but she's been sniffin somethin that's caused her pricin senses to go astray.
I've also started lookin at REAL FEL'ers.
Thinkin i needs to git some o' these C&B'ers on the table and raise the funds fer one.
Or, go the St8 route and start scratchin one together from genuine
hand forged parts 'n such.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

well I have the drawins ifn you get the hankerin to homake one

Dam Jim now you have me talkin like that

 

[T.R.]

I was invited on a flintlock-only deer hunt for the late season with a group of Christian guys. These men hunt in Mifflin County and tell me the shots rarely exceed 50 yards. 75 yards yards is a very long shot. With open sights, I doubt that I'll be accurate beyond 75 yards anyways. They post the shooters along ridges overlooking brushy hollows and open areas where the deer typically escape the drivers. This group has been driving the same woodlands for many decades.

Twist is 1-48 for this TC rifle. I read that thickness of patch and diameter of the round ball are critical to accurasy. Get it right and 2 - 3 inch groups at 50 yards are attainable. Planning to try both 777 and real black powder FFg. as propellents. FFFFg for pan primer. Most of the local shops sell real gunpowder here in Pennsylvania.

I'm planning to master this flintlock. That is, clustered groups at 50 yards. But if I fail, I'll just sell it and call it a fun experience.

TR

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Get it right and raggedy large one holes at 50 yds, three to four inch groups at 100yds.

Until you get a few dozen shots under your belt, don't worry so much about group size. There are many fine points to hone before good groups appear. You may be shooting a 2 inch group at 50 yds and the next time to the range change something in your loading routine that throws the whole group awry. Consistency in everything you do to load and shoot the gun makes for accuracy.

 

[robhof]

robhof

To use subs; Pyrodex or T7 you have to use about 3gr of primer powder to ignite the subs, even the new Thompson flinters that are supposed to fire subs and pellets, suggest a few grains of primer black in the muzzle before the sub for best and shortest ignition time.