Need equipment recommendation: muzzle loading for Elk in Colorado

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Richard.Howe

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I just applied for a Unit 20 muzzle loading bull tag in Colorado.

I do not know anything about blackpowder equipment...but have a pretty extensive modern arms collection and am an avid hunter.

The CO equipment regs read as follows:

b. During the muzzle-loading firearm seasons for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and moose the
following additional restrictions apply:
1. Propellent/Powders: The use of pelletized powder systems and smokeless powder
are prohibited.
2. Projectiles: Sabots are prohibited. For the purposes of this regulation cloth patches
are not sabots.
3. Loading: Firearms must load from the muzzle. Firearms which can be loaded from
the breech are prohibited.
4. Sights: Any muzzle-loading rifle or smoothbore musket with any sighting device other
than open or “iron” sights is prohibited.
Click to expand...

Given these restrictions, can you experts recommend the best & brightest .50 cal setup?

Thanks!
Rich
 
The Lyman Great Planes Rifle in the 1-32 twist barrel loaded with 90-100gr Goex ffg, Maxi-ball, and percussion ignition. This combo seems to work well. My Elk rifle is a 62cal Hawken Half stock flinter, with 120gr ffg and a patched round ball. Took a big ( is there any other size in Elk) cow several years ago. One shot at 80yds and trailed for 50yrds.
http://possibleshop.com/muzzloadrifle2.htm


Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
 
Richard:

The regulations are a bit more than that.

From http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdon...E36-9263-7DE1CE74B424/0/index_information.pdf :

3. Muzzleloading Rifles & Smoothbore Muskets
a. In-line muzzleloaders are Legal
b. Must be single-barrel that fires a single round-ball or conical projectile the length of which does not exceed twice the diameter (caliber).
c. To hunt deer, pronghorn or bear, they must be min of .40 caliber.
d. To hunt elk or moose, they must be min of .50 caliber.
e. From .40 caliber to .50 caliber, bullets must weigh min 170 grains.
f. If greater than .50 caliber bullets must weigh min. 210 grains.
g. Shotshell primers are legal.
h. Pelletized powder systems prohibited in muzzleloading seasons.
i. Cannot be loaded from the breech in muzzleloading seasons.
j. Only open or iron sights allowed in muzzleloading seasons. Scopes prohibited. Fiber optic sights and flourescent paints are legal. Artificial light, batteries and electronic gear are illegal.
k. Sabots are prohibited in muzzleloading seasons. Cloth patches are not sabots.
l. Smokeless powder prohibited in muzzleloading seasons. Black powder and black powder substitues are legal.
j. Only legal muzzleloaders are legal in muzzleloading seasons.

What does this mean?

Well during the special muzzleloading season you can only use the weapons/ammos allowed above. General rifle you can use whatever you want. Scope? Fine, conical more than 2 calibers? Fine too. The savage smokeless muzzleloader? Ok in general rifle.

I'll assume you're looking at going during the special muzzleloading season.

You'll need a 'Colorado Legal' Conical. Cabela's stocks them, as do other blackpowder bullet sites. A good .50 soft lead, hollowpoint or "Keith" style bullet will do well driven to around 1100 fps given good shot placement.

See http://blackpowderbullets.com/colorado legal conicals.html for some good bullets.
 
Another vote for the 2 band Enfield. I have a British made Parker Hale and I shoot a 535 grain minie ball. The .58 will go out to 350 yards (maximum I've fired) but during the Civil War, it was accurate out to 500 yards. If you want to go fancy, go with a Perdesoli Kodiak double barrel in .58 or larger.
 
I am in Colorado too. I was going to recommend the Encore. It meets all the rules and you can swap the barrel and shoot in the regular rifle season.

I have an encore, next year I am going to get a bp barrel and give it a go.

This year I have drawn a plains deer license and am collecting preference points for elk and antelope.
 
what 2 use for colorado elk or deer or moose

after many years experience I enjoy my .54 cal flintlock , but for someone use to modern rifles a caplock would be a wise choice! any rifle in the .54 cal. or larger would be best but I wouldn't go beyond .62 cal. BECAUSE you loose velocity quickly.. The .54 is the best for sustanded energy and velocity. I have punched holes through a 5gal. buckets stuffed full of old phone books and filled wiith water at 100yds. beat that. I use a .530 round ball and .010 patch with TC bullet lube on the patch. I shoot 90 grains of 3fff because it goes off faster . I have killed many deer over the years with this at ranges from 40 yds. out too 120 yds. I was planning a elk hunt this year but it has been canceled for reasons beyond my control at this time.. My dream hunt is to go Grizzly hunting with this combo or I may have a new flintlock built for the occasion in .62 cal. and a much shorter barrel for faster mobility. What ever you choose good luck and enjoy ! With a cap lock you can use the newer blackpowder substitutes with good results too. Practice some guns group better with 100 grains or 95 gr. thats what you want is a good group just like your modern rifles... Matt 1mountainman
 
Well, I was in the same boat, kinda, last year. Took a trip to Idaho for an elk hunt (wasnt successful in the hunt, but was in the experience).

Anyway, I settled on a Lyman Trade Rifle in .54 caliber. I really like the Great Plains rifle, but this one is what happened my way and I jumped on it. I removed the fixed rear sight that came installed and swapped it for the elevation adjustable rear that came with the gun.

The family Members I hunted with swear by the Hornady Great Plains bullet. 425 gr hollow based hollow point. They have taken many elk and hunt the season every year. I wasnt so keen on using a hollow pointed all lead bullet on an elk, so I focused more on round or flat nose bullets. I finally settled on the 420 gr hollow based round nose from Buffalo Bullets.

I would have liked to use true BP, but couldnt find a source so I settled on 777. A 95 grain charge gave me nice tight groups at 50-75 yards. 100 yards is about my personal max range on open sights due to my relatively poor eyesight.

One thing I discovered after the trip was that percussion caps were not giving me relaible ignition. They had during the sight in time, but not during field use. I swapped out the percussion cap nipple for a musket cap nipple and went to musket caps. So far, I havent had one issue since. I would highly reccomend that switch. Very cheap and well worth it, I think.
 
Powerbelts are legal. Chuckhawks.com is filled with anti CVA/powerbelt/BPI writer Randy Wakeman.

check out the CVA Accura. Stay AWAY from TC's as they have a bad rep for not shooting conicals for crap.

Powerbelts work excellent on big game.
 
The Lyman Great Plains Rifle is a 1:60 twist, not a 1:32, so it is a roundball gun. It would, however, make a fine elk gun in .54 cal with 90 gr ffg and an overpowder wad. Best range would be 75-125 yards, with max range of 150 yards.

A better choice for longer range would be a .54 cal Lyman Trade Rifle which has the faster twist (1:48, which is really a compromise) needed for stabilizing conical rounds. That Hornady Great Plains bullet is an excellent choice, so are the others Richard Howe suggested (BTW, the Wakeman article bashing Powerbelts is yellow journalism at it's worst, typical of Wakeman's trash talking).
Powerbelts would also work but you really need to try them in your rifle first. 110 gr ffg should get you out to a max range of 200 yards ok.
 
I hack around with a flintlock Lyman Great Plains Rifle for muzzleloader deer season in CT. Got into it just to get more deer off the lawn. The rifle has trouble hitting a 4x8 piece of plywood at 100yds with sabots or conicals - but with round ball and a patch from a worn out pair of boxer shorts and a little bacon lard, it can hit a (large) paper plate at that range. Since i rarely take shots over 50 yds on deer (given the terrain), i go with a 70 gr. load of fffg
 
The Lyman Great Plains Hunter has a 1:32 barrel for conicals. That barrel is also available as an accessory barrel for Great Plains Rifle owners. As an FYI.

Also, the max load recommended by Lyman for the Trade Rifle (which is what I shoot) is 100 grains of powder....
 
I have to add A+ to the Powerbelt bullet. We have used them on quite a few Mule Deer in Colorado. If it was a different state I would probably say use Sabots. The Powerbelt shoot better than any others I have used as far as accuracy and expand well in the 50 cal configuration.
 
i have never shot a round ball.

i would think that after 30 or so yards accuracy would go down the tube.

how do they perform???

and is soft lead or hard lead better?
 
The accuracy of patched round balls with hunting loads depends on the barrel twist. They can shoot just as accurately as sabots from the long barrels with a slow 1 in 66" twist. A .54 caliber ball weighs 225 grains and is recommended as the minimum for elk.
Pure lead shoots the best in rifled barrels while hard lead is okay for smoothbores only.
Hornady makes "Hard Balls" in a plastic cup that might work in inlines, but I don't know how well they shoot. You're right about most inlines not shooting patches round balls very well, but there are exceptions.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_se...&category_id=60c98fec8de0f35ede7490eba72ce09c
 
Like most inlines, the Knight rifles have a fast twist for shooting saboted bullets and conicals. Most folks shoot a 240 - 250 grain bullet/sabot with 80 - 100 grains of powder, and also heavier saboted bullets and conicals for larger game.
But the Knight rifles are one make that some have said will also shoot a patched round ball fairly well out to 50 yards. That's because it has deeper rifling, but not too much powder can be loaded when shooting them, like 40 - 50 grains tops (and 15% less if using 777). Shooting round balls out of inlines are mostly just for short range target shooting.
 
Richard my 1863 Remington Zouave .58 with a 500gr Minnie and 60-70 gr of real Black Powder would do ya right easily wth a 3 leaf site 0-300 yards and a 200 yard shot without a lot a trouble. Not too long or heavy, quickly reloaded for that second shot...reasonably priced. Worth a look.
PoorboyRem.jpg
PR0853Zouave.gif
welcome to the BP Club ... good luck and good hunting...
 
ml for elk

Hi Richard, Im not going to recommend any one type of rifle for you . Plenty of good information here for you. I am going to recommend a book, (The Muzzleloading Hunter" , by Rick Hacker. Its a great book, at a great price at the usual (amazon.com). ITs a look at blackpowder hunting(with traditional black powder guns, rifles and pistols and revolvers) with tips on loading, selection on projectiles, etc. Nice format.(i read it over and over again, especially prior to big game hunting trips) I dont work for, or know Rick Hacker,but his book is well worth a look. (If he ever visits THR, I sure would like him to autograph my book!) Good hunting!

mothernatureson
 
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