Need help with rifle reloading process!

[maseh2os]

Ok, having done far too much lurking on several of these forums, and only getting myself more and more confused, I decided I should finally post my own questions in hopes of getting a complete answer. This will be kind of lengthy, so I apologize in advance.

Background: I am fairly new shooter and even newer to reloading. I have only reloaded 9mm thus far, but I have a 25-06 bolt action that I would like to start reloading for as well. I have an RCBS Rockchucker press and most of the basics (scale, calipers, hand primer, etc).

It will be used mostly for hunting varmint and deer, with the obvious paper shooting in between. I have no desire to shoot crazy distances for insanely tight groups. I don't want to get overly fussy with the process, I don't like the sound of things like turning brass, buying expensive brass, measuring and sorting each bullet, sorting different headstamps, etc. I would like ammo that is relatively easy to make, doesn't need to be babied to keep bullets from getting pushed in or falling out, brass I can use as many times as possible, and as accurate or better than factory ammo. I know, I know...not asking for much at all, right?

Let me just lay out what process and tools I think I should use to reload for the 25-06, ask a few questions, and then you guys can tell me if I'm on the right track or way off base. I know there is a lot of brand loyalty in this game, but I'm hoping we can avoid most of the back and forth in that regard!

1. Trim case if necessary
2. Deprime and reprime.
3. If this is previously fired brass (not my rifle), or has been fired several times by me, run cases through Redding Body Die.
4. Neck size using Lee collet neck sizing die.
5. Powder charge
6. Seat bullet using dead length seating die that comes with Lee collet.
7. Light crimp with Lee factory crimp die, but this would be optional, mainly if I didn't think the bullet was being held tightly enough from neck sizing alone.
8. Shoot
9. Repeat

Does this seem mostly right?

I've noticed there is a lot of contention over neck/full body sizing, so I guess I should ask: based on my desired results is it even necessary or should I just be staying in my depth by using a standard die set?

I chose body die instead of regular full length resizing because I had read in several places that it can jack up the neck which you are trying to avoid for neck sizing...sound reasonable?

I know there are better seating dies (and better dies of each kind I listed), but given financial restrictions, I'm trying to do the best I can with what I can afford. And again, I'm not trying to set any records here.

I know there is also debate over crimping, but honestly I think I would be most comfortable with a bit of crimp just for safety. Also, since I'd rather not try to seat the bullet near/against the lands as some seem to do with neck sizing, wouldn't some crimp help compensate for that pressure loss?

I know this is a lot of stuff, probably too much for one post, but I keep finding such fragmented information that I wanted to try getting it all at once! Sorry again for the length, and thanks in advance to all who take the time to read and respond!

 

[Redneckly33]

What I try to do is, deprime all cases. I tumble all of my cases, clean and debur primer pockets. Then, I resize my cases. Its alright to neck size only, if your cases are fireformed to your chamber, if not , you need to full lenght resize your cases. then I trim all cases. Chamfer inside of case mouth and debur the outside of case mouth. I prime all cases, charge each case, seat bullets, slight crimp is fine, about 2 thousandt is fine. clean up bench and go to the range. Sorry, left out a step, inspect your brass after each range trip or firing session.

 

[coloradokevin]

Your process doesn't sound too bad at the moment. I also skip the obsessive compulsive steps of weighing/sorting brass and bullets, and I don't turn the necks on my cases either. Maybe that kind of stuff provides results for benchrest shooters who are using expensive custom guns, but I imagine that the theory of diminishing returns probably comes into play when we start talking about those steps being added to the process.

My reloading process for my .308 is currently as follows (and this gun has printed numerous sub 0.50 MOA groups with my handloads at 100 yards and beyond):

1) Tumble the brass

2) Neck size and decap, assuming the brass has been previously fired in my gun. I also use a Lee collet die. Otherwise, if the brass came from another gun, I use a full-length sizing die.

3) Clean the primer pockets.

4) Trim to length.

5) Chamfer and debur after trimming.

6) Prime the case.

7) Add the powder.

8) Add the bullet.

9) Crimp if needed.


The reason I add the trim step after the sizing step is because it seems like the case length can change a bit during sizing (at least with a full-length size). As such, I prefer to size first and then trim to length.

As for neck sizing, I've had good and accurate results with this die, and I've noticed that my groups tend to tighten up by about 0.10" when I neck size. I'm fairly new to the neck sizing scene, and have probably only fired 200 or so neck sized rounds (with up to four loadings on the same pieces of brass). More than anything, I like that I don't have to use lube when I'm neck sizing the brass, and I like that the brass isn't being worked very hard.

On the negative side, I noticed recently that you do have to make sure that you pull the handle hard enough to correctly size the neck on this brass. I loaded a few rounds tonight that I had previous sized. Apparently I was being a bit of a sissy on the press handle when I sized that brass, because a few of the case necks lacked the bullet tension that I was seeking. As such, I'd probably add a crimp for hunting ammo!

 

[maseh2os]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. Totally didn't think about the trimming after resizing. Makes good sense to me.

 

[35 Whelen]

the reason i add the trim step after the sizing step is because it seems like the case length can change a bit during sizing (at least with a full-length size). As such, i prefer to size first and then trim to length.

+1

35w

 

[Sensai]

I wouldn't prime the cases until after they're sized (neck or full length). If you ever have a case stuck in a resizing die, it's better if there's no primer. Habits form easy and are hard to get rid of. When I'm using a single stage press I normally inspect and decap my cases, then clean/tumble them. I then size them and perform a second inspection. Progressive reloading of handgun ammo is a different critter altogether, but I assumed that you're speaking of your 25-06 ammo on your Rockchucker press.

 

[243winxb]

7. Light crimp with Lee factory crimp die, but this would be optional, mainly if I didn't think the bullet was being held tightly enough from neck sizing alone.

Neck tension should hold the bullet without a need to crimp, even using the Collet die. IMO. The Redding Body Die is the same as FL sizing, with no contact made with the neck area.

I would like ammo that is relatively easy to make, doesn't need to be babied to keep bullets from getting pushed in or falling out, brass I can use as many times as possible, and as accurate or better than factory ammo.

A standard die set works very well here. But does overwork the neck area of the brass. As long as you keep an eye on the proper neck tension, using the collet die, you will be fine.

 

[maseh2os]

Points taken on order of tumbling, depriming, priming, trimming, sizing, etc. I will obviously have to work out the finer details there. For now I guess I am more concerned about which dies to get and which process to use to get the most out of my ammo without going overboard.

A standard die set works very well here. But does overwork the neck area of the brass. As long as you keep an eye on the proper neck tension, using the collet die, you will be fine.

So are you saying I should or shouldn't go with neck sizing? And how does one control the "proper neck tension using the collet die"? By how far down the neck you set the die to go? How much force you put on press handle? Pressing more than once?

Thanks again for the help guys!

 

[Cherokee]

I'll suggest that after sizing & trimming your brass, before priming or loading, try to chamber a few in your rifle to make sure the bolt will close.

 

[Pacsd]

I agree with Cherokee on trying the brass before loading. Also, after I've loaded 8-10-12 rounds I'll check the chambering ease even though I measure the COAL. I don't check every load, just pick out 5-8 random rounds out of the loading block

 

[maseh2os]

Seems like good advice to me. Will definitely try chambering as I go to make sure things are going right. As far as OAL, should I just start by buying bullets that are in my manual and seat to the recommended OAL?

 

[243winxb]

So are you saying I should or shouldn't go with neck sizing?

A standard die set works just fine for many reloaders. Your choice.

And how does one control the "proper neck tension using the collet die"? By how far down the neck you set the die to go? How much force you put on press handle? Pressing more than once?

Go to the Lee link below, then dies, 5 topics on the collet die. If your a good judge of what 25 lbs feels like, then a collet die is for you. There have been a few posts where there is no neck tension to hold the bulllet after a few loadings. Then a custom mandrel is needed. I feel the neck thickness is thinned by being pressed hard against the Mandrel. This is why i have never owned or used a Lee Collet die.

 

[maseh2os]

There have been a few posts where there is no neck tension to hold the bulllet after a few loadings.

Yikes, I hadn't realized this was a common problem! I'd really rather not get into having different size mandrels for different brass and all that. That gets me back into the overly complicated realm of things...Thanks for the tip!

 

[jb27]

2. Deprime and reprime.
3. If this is previously fired brass (not my rifle), or has been fired several times by me, run cases through Redding Body Die.
4. Neck size using Lee collet neck sizing die.

Most standard full length or neck sizing dies have a decapping pin in them, so you will need to reprime after you size the case unless you remove the decapping pin. Personally, I like to use Lee's universal decapping die as soon as I get home from the range so when I clean my cases (prior to sizing) I can also clean the primer pockets.

From what I've read, neck sizing will help promote longer case life, so with one of your stated objectives being long case life, perhaps something to consider. However, you will also need a full length sizing die to full length resize every so often. Also, if you intend to buy brass (especially the less expensive kind), you will need to full length resize it prior to loading it for the first time. If you can't afford to buy both a full size and a neck sizing die right now, I would opt for the full length one first and get the neck die when funds permit. Plus, most of the manufacturers sell die kits with a full size die and a seating die in one package, so that would cover what you need to get started.

Good luck!

 

[maseh2os]

However, you will also need a full length sizing die to full length resize every so often. Also, if you intend to buy brass (especially the less expensive kind), you will need to full length resize it prior to loading it for the first time. If you can't afford to buy both a full size and a neck sizing die right now, I would opt for the full length one first and get the neck die when funds permit.

Right, that's why I was planning on getting the Lee collet set, which would give me the neck sizer and bullet seating die...as well as the Redding body die, which will basically do a full length resize and push the shoulder while leaving the neck alone. That way I could use the collet die the majority of the time, then use the body die every few firings, or with purchased used brass.

Sound right?

 

[coloradokevin]

Go to the Lee link below, then dies, 5 topics on the collet die. If your a good judge of what 25 lbs feels like, then a collet die is for you. There have been a few posts where there is no neck tension to hold the bulllet after a few loadings. Then a custom mandrel is needed. I feel the neck thickness is thinned by being pressed hard against the Mandrel. This is why i have never owned or used a Lee Collet die.

Interesting you should mention that. On some of my neck sized .308 brass (that is sitting at its 4th loading) I noticed a lack of neck tension as I seated the bullets during my last reloading session. In fairness, I'm not sure that the mandrel is the issue at this point, since I don't think I put nearly as much pressure on the press handle as I should have.

This does raise an interesting question for me regarding the Lee Collet Die:

If the neck tension varies due to user variations in press handle pressure, then how can you create uniform finished cartridges with this setup? Personally, I haven't thought much about this issue in practical use, because thus far I've created the most accurate ammo I've ever loaded off of that particular die. Is there a better setup for consistent neck-sizing?

 

[maseh2os]

Is there a better setup for consistent neck-sizing?

Not sure if you have seen this, but this company http://precisionaccuracycompany.com/index.html makes a torque wrench like arm for presses that allow you to put a consistent amount of pressure on the press arm each time. Ammosmith has a video on youtube showing how to use it with the collet die.

 

[Sensai]

243winxb said "I feel the neck thickness is thinned by being pressed hard against the Mandrel. This is why i have never owned or used a Lee Collet die."

Now let me get this straight, the brass is hammered against the chamber walls at 60kpsi on firing, but you think that 25 lbs times the mechanical advantage of your press is going to thin it? I don't think so! I keep a close watch on the neck thickness of the brass for my varmint rifles, and turn them when necessary. I have not have any thinning problems through the thousands of rounds that I've sized with the LCD. The only time that I've had neck tension problems with the Lee collet die is when I've let dirt/grit get into the spaces between the collet fingers so that they couldn't close properly. They are more of a pain to keep clean than regular sizing dies, but it's worth the effort for me. Your milage may vary, that's why they make both kinds.

 

[243winxb]

Many die choices to get the job done. Cost can be a factor.

Is there a better setup for consistent neck-sizing?

There are bushing dies that do not use an expander, but they can have problems if the fired case neck has to be sized down more than .008" , runout + the neck may be sized smaller then whats marked on the bushing. Case life is the same when using standard FL or neck dies using an expander, at least with neck splits. If you have a 303 or a rifle with a very large chamber in the body area, then you will benifit from just neck sizing with an expander. IMO. For loading 1 factory chambered rifle, sending 3 factory ammo fired brass to RCBS for a custom die is the best way to go for a hunting rifle.

 

[243winxb]

Sensai, I feel it depends on the operator, would you agree there is a learning curve to use the collet die? I have measured thinning of the neck wall thickness using standard dies. MR Lee said >

With a press without having an over center feature, apply about 25 lbs. of pressure to the handle once it bottoms out to resize the case. On most presses, this translates to over 600 lbs of pressure on the ram.

When a case is fired, it stops when it hits the chamber, flows many different ways. A collet die has the brass between 2 objects. Just how i see it. Many people use them, just not for me.

 

[243winxb]

Interesting you should mention that. On some of my neck sized .308 brass (that is sitting at its 4th loading) I noticed a lack of neck tension as I seated the bullets during my last reloading session. In fairness, I'm not sure that the mandrel is the issue at this point, since I don't think I put nearly as much pressure on the press handle as I should have.

As you said, I don't think I put nearly as much pressure on the press handle as I should have. < This might be the answer?

Brass spring back may have something to do with it?? Mr. Lee said >

The Mandrels for the Collet Dies are made to .002" to .003" under nominal bullet diameter as there is about .001" to .002" of spring back. When the case neck is finished being sized, we want the case neck to be .001" under nominal bullet diameter.

This .001" neck tension is very light. But should be fine if the brass is pushed in, to contact the mandrel. When using a bushing die for my single shot rife, neck turned brass, i found i needed to use a bushing .001" smaller to retain neck tension after the brass was fired a few times. Now the brass has been fired 18 times with no splits in the necks.