Need info on some things.

Status
Not open for further replies.

G36-UK

Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
490
Location
Bo'ness, Scotland
Okay, I figured that you guys would know some of this stuff, so if anyone can help, I'd appreciate it.

I have a few questions. A few are more about ammo, but I thought I'd ask, seeing as I think they're pistol rounds.

1: What's the difference between .38 Special and .380?

2: I've seen somewhere, a book that notes Ingram M-11 guns can fire .45 and .380, and another that says they use .45 and 9mm. Is .380 the same as 9mm?

3: Also, yet another of my books mentions .380 ACP. Same thing, or mistake?

4: Is there such a thing as recoil dampening? How could recoil be dampened in a pistol?

5: If I had a pistol/SMG that fired 9mm or 10mm rounds, depending on model, with extensive modification to the model itself, could it fire larger bullets, like for example, .357 and such? What kind of mods would be required? (For a story I'm writing. Sort of a long explanation.)

6: What exactly are Hydra-Shok and Hydraulic Shock?

Thanks in advance to everyone.
 
.38 special is a rimmed revolver cartridge, .380 acp is a rimless semi auto cartridge, also known as 9mm Kurz. Somebody else will come along and post pics and answer the others. :)
 
1: Physically, one's a long rimmed revolver cartridge, the other is a short semi-auto cartridge. They're comparable in terms of power.

2: There's the MAC-10 in .45, and the MAC-11 in either 9mm OR .380 (I think).

3: .380 = .380 ACP = .380 Auto = 9mm Kurz

4: Weight. The heavier the gun, the lesser the recoil. Also the type of action. Blow-back actions tend to have a lot of recoil, for instance.

5: Maybe. For instance, it might (depending on the gun) be "easy" to convert from .40 S&W to 10mm by just changing the barrel (or even reaming out the chamber a little longer). Good enough for a story, anyway.

6: Hydra-Shock is a type of hollow-point bullet made by Federal Cartridge Co.
 
I appreciate the help. Thanks.

5: Maybe. For instance, it might (depending on the gun) be "easy" to convert from .40 S&W to 10mm by just changing the barrel (or even reaming out the chamber a little longer). Good enough for a story, anyway.

I see. If it was a total remake of the gun (example: HK MP5), would it be possible to accomodate much larger rounds without being too cumbersome, such as revolver ammunition?

I was hoping to have my imaginary rifle, the AR-400, firing .400 CorBon ammo. It's a heavily remade copy of the MP5, with a longer barrel and solid stock. This thing's supposed to be a total remodel, while keeping just the basic look of the gun from which it originated.

What kind of modifications would be needed to make it viable as a combat weapon, and what weight would something like this be? I'd expect it to be heavy, as I suppose there wouldn't be that many materials that could tolerate the forces involved in the shots. (or are we talking impossible for the size?)
 
Buy the AR-15 and then buy the necessary parts to convert to 458 SOCOM. Ammunition is being made by Corbon so there must be more than a few such guns [ 300 grain bullet at 1900 fps ] the ideal pig gun !!
 
1) The .38 Spl is on the left and the .380 ACP is on the right. (attached pix) Others have pretty well described the differences. The .38 can be found in usual loadings with bullet weights of 110 gr to 158 gr. Heavier weights can be found up to 200 gr if you look around and one company use to load as light as 95 gr. The .380 usual bullet weights vary from 88 gr to 102 gr. The .38 Spl and the .380 ACP are pretty close to the same bore diameter. The .38 Spl is .357" and the .380 is .355" so neither names truly represent their bullet diameters. Their names go back to their origins and the discrepancies often confuse new shooters.
2) a) MAC-10 could be had in either .45 or 9mm. The MAC-11 was the .380 version.
2) b) The .380 and the 9mm are 2 different rds. The .380 is sometimes called the 9mm Kurz or 9mm Short. It is a lower pressure, lower velocity rd than the 9mm. They are not interchangeable.
3) The .380 has several different names. It's original name was the .380 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) which was first chambered for the 1908 Colt Pocket Hammerless. It's sometimes called .380; 9X17; 9mm Short; 9mm Kurz; 9mm Corto, etc. Those are all the same rd, just by different names, and they are interchangeable.
4) Weight of the gun is one way. Gas operated is another, which is rare in a handgun. Locked breech as opposed to blow back operated will result in less felt recoil. Higher grip/lower bore will result in reduced felt recoil. Some years back there was at least 1 company making a recoil reducing guide rod. Never shot one so don't know how well it worked. MagnaPorting will sometimes help reduce felt recoil.
5) It is possible to swap parts to shoot different calibers in the same gun. The old M-3 "Grease Gun" which is normally found in .45 ACP was originally supplied with a 9mm barrel and magazine. To switch one just unscrewed the barrel and replaced with the other. It is somewhat feasible to go from one caliber to another but it is generally easier to stay with conversions where the head case is similiar. There are other factors such as recoil spring, etc that has to be taken into account. A common conversion is to buy a upper receiver to convert a gun to something like .22LR for practice. Trying to stay with the same frame, slide and other parts can be frustrating to get everything working right and reliably. Some years ago H&K sold a model IIRC was called the H&K-4. It was the same frame but with just the swap of a few parts it could shoot .22LR, .25, .32, and .380. Haven't seen one in years. I suspect those who have one aren't selling.
As far as the .357 Mag it is the same bore diameter as the .38 Spl but the .357's case is 1/10" longer. Chamber pressures are considerably higher in the .357. Getting a .357 to work in an auto can tax one's patience. The .357 is a rimmed case like the .38 which can cause feeding problems in an auto. It can, and has, been done but it's not common.
6) a) Hyrda-Shok is a bullet design currently being loaded by Federal. It is an easily recognizeable rd in that it is a HP design and inside the hollow point is a lead post. It's been around quite a few years and started life known as the Scorpion.
6) b) Hydraulic shock is not a bullet but is a reaction a bullet has on a substance. Hydraulic shock can best be demonstrated by taking a milk jug, fill it with water, cap it tightly, then shoot it with a high velocity rd out of a rifle. The milk jug will look like it explodes. Shoot the same milk jug with something like a .22 LR and it will punch a hole in the jug. It results from the bullet passing thru a liquid. It will occur at all speeds altho at slow speeds the impact is very minimal and for firearms is pretty much inconsequential. As speeds increase the amount and result of hydraulic shock increases. Since the human body is largely water the hydraulic shock can play a role in bullet performance if the velocity is high enough. Handgun bullets generally do not produce enough velocity where hydraulic shock plays much, if any, role.
 
Making a semi-auto or full-auto firearm to shoot a revolver cartridge (e.g., .357 Magnum) is not very practical since rimmed cartridges seldom feed well out of a magazine. When it has been done, the magazine is usually curved to prevent cartridge rims from hanging up on each other.

Jim
 
When doing caliber conversions, loaded cartridge length and diameter are an issue. Typically weapon magazines (thus mag wells and ejection ports) are designed around a particular round length. You can go shorter length and/or smaller diameter but not easily the other way around. HK makes a .45 and 10mm MP5-ish carbine so .400 corbon is no prob.

Anyway .400 Corbon is just a medium pistol cartridge, it won't require anything special in terms of recoil devices.

Current military small arms data is available all over, take a look at a book or website or two for some general stuff. There should be no reason why your weapon would need to be any heavier than the current suite of military submachine guns, so figure 5-ish pounds depending on accessories (lights, lasers, etc.)

Something to keepin mind. Depending on the projected use, many units are going away from pistol caliber sub guns to .223 carbines for the increase in power, penetration and range. Weights aren't effectively any higher and you get a more versitile weapon out of the deal.
 
Something that occurred to me since you are in Scotland – The British Army used the .38 Smith & Wesson cartridge and with a 200 grain bullet called it the .380-200. The cartridge case is .775 inches long (the .38 Special is 1.155) and the bullet is nominally .360-.361 inches in diameter (the .38 Special is .357-.358). Velocity with the 200grain bullet is in the 650 to 700fps range.
Cruffler.com has a great article on the Webley Mark IV Revolver
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top