need some info on purchasing a gun trust

[Glock702]

If I plan on purchasing two or three suppressors in my lifetime, should I buy a gun trust. Nobody really shoots in the family except me, but granted something were to happen to me, will it just sit in my safe forever and nobody in the family would be allowed to shoot it? i plan on giving my firearm possessions and accessories to my brother once I pass.

 

[AlexanderA]

You don't really need an NFA trust, especially if no one in the family shoots except you. The process of buying as an individual is simpler. NFA items pass tax-free to heirs using a Form 5. (Heirs are defined either by will or by operation of law.)

 

[Glock702]

You don't really need an NFA trust, especially if no one in the family shoots except you. The process of buying as an individual is simpler. NFA items pass tax-free to heirs using a Form 5. (Heirs are defined either by will or by operation of law.)

appreciate the info. So, does that mean that all I need is to pay for the supressor and an additional $200 to the ATF if I do not plan on purchasing a gun trust?

 

[Elkins45]

appreciate the info. So, does that mean that all I need is to pay for the supressor and an additional $200 to the ATF if I do not plan on purchasing a gun trust?

It depends on how you get your photos and fingerprints. Some dealers can do it for you electronically and others send you off to do it on your own. I had to pay $20 to have two fingerprint cards done.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I have a trust.
If you don’t have a trust, when you pass, the person that inherits the NFA items will have to pay for the tax stamps again.
It you get a trust and put your brother on it he will not have to pay for a new tax stamp.

 

[Telekinesis]

I have a trust.
If you don’t have a trust, when you pass, the person that inherits the NFA items will have to pay for the tax stamps again.
It you get a trust and put your brother on it he will not have to pay for a new tax stamp.

That's incorrect. If the NFA items are registered to an individual, they will transfer to the deceased's heirs on a Form 5 which is tax free (and my understanding is that it tends to be approved quicker than form 1/4s).

After the owner has passed but before the Form 5 has been approved/returned, the Executor of the estate is able to possess the weapons.

Trusts can make the inheritance process a bit easier, but there is no tax incentive for it. I view the biggest advantage of having a trust as being able to allow multiple people (family members) to possess the weapons. If you don't need that and don't foresee that being useful in the future, I don't think there's a real advantage to having a trust.

 

[Elkins45]

I have a trust.
If you don’t have a trust, when you pass, the person that inherits the NFA items will have to pay for the tax stamps again.
It you get a trust and put your brother on it he will not have to pay for a new tax stamp.

Nope. Form 5 transfer after death doesn’t incur a tax penalty.

Trusts used to have two advantages. They didn’t require prints and photos, and all members of the trust could possess the items. After rule 41F the only remaining reason for a trust is for multiple persons...but those persons all must submit prints and photos if they are part of the trust at the time of transfer.

 

[AlexanderA]

Trusts used to have two advantages. They didn’t require prints and photos, and all members of the trust could possess the items. After rule 41F the only remaining reason for a trust is for multiple persons...but those persons all must submit prints and photos if they are part of the trust at the time of transfer.

The main advantage of a trust used to be that it didn't require CLEO certification. That's actually why NFA trusts originated, since many CLEO's refused to sign, and this was a workaround. 41F did away with CLEO certification (we now have mere "notification").

"Responsible persons" (trustees) can be added or deleted after the transfer, without resubmission of prints and photos. Indeed, the personnel of the trust can be changed completely, meaning that a de facto transfer of the NFA item can take place without ATF involvement. This is an obvious loophole, and I predict it will be closed by new regulations before too long.

 

[Elkins45]

The main advantage of a trust used to be that it didn't require CLEO certification. That's actually why NFA trusts originated, since many CLEO's refused to sign, and this was a workaround. 41F did away with CLEO certification (we now have mere "notification").

"Responsible persons" (trustees) can be added or deleted after the transfer, without resubmission of prints and photos. Indeed, the personnel of the trust can be changed completely, meaning that a de facto transfer of the NFA item can take place without ATF involvement. This is an obvious loophole, and I predict it will be closed by new regulations before too long.

I had totally forgotten about the CLEO sign off. That was indeed a good reason to establish a trust.

The problem with adding responsible persons to a trust after the fact is that it would require modification and therefore renotarization of the trust document. That’s probably as much of a pain or more than just getting prints and photos for everyone, at least it would be for me. Of course that completely ignores the problem of people adding a whole bunch of people after the fact.

I have an NFA trust but I haven’t bought a new item since 41F took effect. If I do I will probably just buy as an individual since I’m the only member of my trust who actually uses the items. My brother in law will inherit all of them regardless.

I fear that the Virginia Beach shooting will put NFA under the spotlight with predictable media hysteria.

 

[dogtown tom]

.....The problem with adding responsible persons to a trust after the fact is that it would require modification and therefore renotarization of the trust document.

Not true in most states.
The Silencer Shop Single Shot Trust does not require notarization and is one of the most popular trust on the market.
https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/single-shot-trust/

 

[Elkins45]

Not true in most states.
The Silencer Shop Single Shot Trust does not require notarization and is one of the most popular trust on the market.
https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/single-shot-trust/

The trust that owns my current batch of NFA items is written in such a way that it would have to be.

If Silencer Shop can write a trust that allows you to add responsible parties after the fact then there’s no reason someone else can’t. I presume you can’t buy a SS trust for a silencer you buy from local dealer stock?

There’s a shop nearby that has a Sig 22 (new version) in stock for $280. Another has the SRD45 for $520. Both have been calling my name for a few months. I may just go ahead and break down since I have some money coming in from some extra contract work.

 

[AlexanderA]

The problem with adding responsible persons to a trust after the fact is that it would require modification and therefore renotarization of the trust document.

Notarizing something is no big deal. Most bank branches will do it for free, particularly if you are an account holder. Certainly less bother than sending in photographs and fingerprints.

With ATF approval times being as long as they are, I'm going to predict that changing parties on trusts is going to become a workaround for bypassing the ATF approval process altogether. Since the trust continues to own the item, there is no "transfer" even though the people in physical possession change. Anyway this is going to make for some interesting litigation.