Need your thoughts, Odd results with IMR4227

[rnewton75]

I recently picked up a pound of IMR4227 because I haven't been able to find any 2400 in over a year now. Book data from several of my manuals led me to believe this would be an acceptable substitute for use in .357 Magnum & .30 Carbine. I also tried a Ruger only .45 Colt load from the Hornady manual. On average, velocities were way under book data. Some of the manuals listed my test loads near max & some listed them as somewhere in the middle. Everything was tested on the same chronograph under normal conditions, 10' from the muzzle. So my question is, does this data look about right to you all?

Load Data & Results (all with IMR4227):

.357 Magnum (125gr XTP, CCI Magnum Primer)
Lyman Data 4" Barrel
15.6gr - 1232fps
19.5gr - 1427fps
Hornady Data 8" Barrel
14.8gr - 1250fps
17.9gr - 1400fps
My Results - 686+ 2.75" Barrel
17.0gr - 1098fps (7 shot Avg.)
18.0gr - 1136fps (7 shot Avg.)
As a Control - Hornady factory 125gr FTX Critical Defense
686+ 2.75" Barrel 7 shot Avg. - 1303fps

.30 Carbine (110gr RN, CCI Small Rifle Primer)
Lyman Data (USGI M1 Carbine)
13.5gr - 1642fps
15.0gr - 1845fps MAX
Lee Data (USGI M1 Carbine)
13.0gr - 1826fps
14.5gr - 2003fps MAX
Sierra Data (USGI M1 Carbine)
13.2gr - 1600fps
15.4gr - 1900fps MAX
My Results - (USGI M1 Carbine)
14.5gr - 1790fps

.45 Colt TC & RUGER ONLY (300gr XTP, Federal LMP Primer)
Hornady Data (10" Barrel TC)
18.7gr - 1050fps
19.5gr - 1100fps MAX
My Results (Redhawk 4" Barrel)
19.0gr - 875fps

 

[627PCFan]

I can only chime in on the 357. My accurate load was 18.7gn of 4227 under 125gn XTPs in a 5 inch barrel. Three shot string was 1403 1415 and 1412. So your velocity is in the ballpark.

 

[243winxb]

Where was your powder made. Canada or Australia?? I would guess you have a slow lot?? I picked up a pound in April that was made in Canada. I dont check speed, gave up on it years ago.

 

[usfan]

I loaded up some 45 colt for a redhawk, with 21.1g 4227, 250g fn plated & 300 hybrid coated swc. the heavier projectile had the most recoil, but neither was punishing. I did not check velocity or have a analysis for accuracy, but went with my subjective perception. I loaded some up with less & more, & this is the one i liked best. It was accurate, & had decent kick, so i knew it had the power behind it. it was also in the specs of safety, so all my bases were covered.

 

[Sunray]

Been using IMR4227 with a 110 grain HP or FMJ out of my Carbine for nearly 40 years. Accurate and the HP blows a hole the size of a grape fruit in a grounds hog. Wouldn't think twice about using it on our big deer if our idiot government hadn't declared the Carbine to be evil due to its barrel length.
Manuals differ. It's because the data reflects condition on the day of the test with the firearm/universal receiver used only. Your results will always be slightly different.
You'll find manual data changes over time too. When I worked up my Carbine load, max was 15.0. It's 14.5 now. Not a big deal.
Lee Data you can mostly ignore. Not due to any safety issue though. It's just that Lee tests nothing themselves. They use the powder maker's data. Hodgdon for IMR anything. Plus Winchester and their own brand name.

 

[Catpop]

Ive shot about 5-6 pounds of 4227 so far and like you i used it to replace 2400 which i think went out about the same time political correctness came in.
I've been advised by this thread it works best at near max and even compressed loads. Also it performs best with a heavy crimp to allow it to build some pressure before hitting the starting gate. I found it to be very accurate, although the powder residue, burnt kernals, can be a pain.
Catpop

 

[627PCFan]

"it works best at near max and even compressed loads"

+1

It was disconcerting to hear that crunch on bullet seating but I never had any sign of overpressure. When I got into the compressed loads, the unburnt kernels disappeared...

 

[DWFan]

quote from 243winxb....
Where was your powder made. Canada or Australia?? I would guess you have a slow lot?? I picked up a pound in April that was made in Canada. I dont check speed, gave up on it years ago.

If it's Canadian, it's actual IMR4227. If it's Australian, it's H4227. Hodgdons markets H4227 as IMR now. In my experience with the .357 Maximum, both work much better at maximum (excuse the pun) levels. They are down on velocity a bit, but they are far less temperature sensitive than other powders.

 

[buck460XVR]

So my question is, does this data look about right to you all?

It seems to be appropriate for IMR4227 in a short barreled .357 with a light bullet. I loves me 4227 in big bores, (.44s and .460s) but in .357s, while it proves to be a very accurate powder, it does not produce the highest velocities. As others have said it works best nearly or compressed. It also likes a firm crimp and prefers heavy bullets.

Far too many folks concentrate solely on velocity. You never told us about accuracy. I load for accuracy and tend to use standard for caliber bullets(i.e. 158gr in .357). IMR works well for me. It also works best for me in long piped revolvers and carbines. If I want velocity with light bullets and short barrels, I tend to go to other powders. Also, I doubt very much if your control load, the Hornady 125gr CDs were loaded with IMR4227. If you want velocities like that you need H110/W296 or a similar powder. I'd be interested to know how close to manual velocities you were able to achieve with 2400 from your snub-nosed 686.

 

[rnewton75]

Thanks for the reply, It was made in Canada.

 

[rnewton75]

It seems to be appropriate for IMR4227 in a short barreled .357 with a light bullet. I loves me 4227 in big bores, (.44s and .460s) but in .357s, while it proves to be a very accurate powder, it does not produce the highest velocities. As others have said it works best nearly or compressed. It also likes a firm crimp and prefers heavy bullets.

Far too many folks concentrate solely on velocity. You never told us about accuracy. I load for accuracy and tend to use standard for caliber bullets(i.e. 158gr in .357). IMR works well for me. It also works best for me in long piped revolvers and carbines. If I want velocity with light bullets and short barrels, I tend to go to other powders. Also, I doubt very much if your control load, the Hornady 125gr CDs were loaded with IMR4227. If you want velocities like that you need H110/W296 or a similar powder. I'd be interested to know how close to manual velocities you were able to achieve with 2400 from your snub-nosed 686.

Thanks for the reply, it was made in Canada. Here's my last load data with the 2400:

158gr - FMJ Flat point
13.5gr - Alliant 2400
SMP CCI Primer
686+ 2.75" - 1050fps

 

[345 DeSoto]

My most accurate Carbine load with a 110gr FMJ is 15.5 grains of IMT 4227...

 

[BigBore45]

it is a true magnum handgun powder from yesteryear. it likes to be compressed and have a mag primer behind it and it likes to be compressed. still your velocities are in the ballpark not knowing your gun.