Nephew’s AD and brush with death.

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WestKentucky said:
...this is why i am so adamant that I want a manual safety...
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Yup. People keep buying these safe guns that have the safety right on the trigger. They're so scared that in that .000000000000000001% chance that they'll ever need that gun, that 1/2 second it takes them to disengage that safety will cost them their lives. smh. Meanwhile, they unholster holster every day. Don't even get me started about carrying with no holster.

Of course, my revolver has no safety, either, so, who am I to judge.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
Yup. People keep buying these safe guns that have the safety right on the trigger. They're so scared that in that .000000000000000001% chance that they'll ever need that gun, that 1/2 second it takes them to disengage that safety will cost them their lives.
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Or that split-second where they forget to disengage the safety at all because it's the first time they've ever had to defend themselves with a handgun or they go to reduce a malfunction and they engage the safety by accident don't even realize that they did it.

Because both of the above are a thing
 
D.B. Cooper said:
Yup. People keep buying these safe guns that have the safety right on the trigger. They're so scared that in that .000000000000000001% chance that they'll ever need that gun, that 1/2 second it takes them to disengage that safety will cost them their lives. smh. Meanwhile, they unholster holster every day. Don't even get me started about carrying with no holster.

Of course, my revolver has no safety, either, so, who am I to judge.
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Because no one has EVER had a 1911 "go off" while he was playing with - oh, I'm sorry - "cleaning" it.




Right?
 
D.B. Cooper said:
Yup. People keep buying these safe guns that have the safety right on the trigger. They're so scared that in that .000000000000000001% chance that they'll ever need that gun, that 1/2 second it takes them to disengage that safety will cost them their lives. smh. Meanwhile, they unholster holster every day. Don't even get me started about carrying with no holster.

Of course, my revolver has no safety, either, so, who am I to judge.
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I know people that carry pistols in Condition 3 because they don't trust themselves with a loaded chamber. Unlike many I don't argue with them. If you don't trust yourself to do it don't.

The bottom line is we all need to consider the various manual of arms and decide what we are comfortable with.

I recently helped a friend with a $600 budget get his first Carry Gun + Acc + Ammo. He shot pistols better than revolvers and was more comfortable with typical DA/SA Manual of Arms. He shot a P226 well but it was out of his price range (Wasn't comfortable with police trade). He ended up with a SP2022 on sale at the LGS for $360. Later he might be comfortable with a 1911 or a Glock but right now the new Sig is right for him because he has confidence it will go bang if needed and not be a bigger danger to him than the bad guy.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
Or that split-second where they forget to disengage the safety at all because it's the first time they've ever had to defend themselves with a handgun or they go to reduce a malfunction and they engage the safety by accident don't even realize that they did it.

Because both of the above are a thing
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I doubt there is any way to answer this question accurately, due to lack of available information and record keeping, but I wonder how many people have been shot by an attacker solely because their gun's safety was on; compare that to the number of people who have injured themselves or others through an ND with a gun whose only safety is on the face of the trigger. As I understand it, most NDs are cause by someone or something pulling the trigger to the rear.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
They're so scared that in that .000000000000000001% chance that they'll ever need that gun, that 1/2 second it takes them to disengage that safety will cost them their lives.
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Never say never.

While I haven't used a safety for a long time, the Wife, at one time, was adamant that she had to have one.

Early on, I tried to tell her that a safety might not be a good idea as we don't include utilizing a safety in our shooting.

Didn't care/had to have one

Several months later, we were just getting started at the pistol range,,, Guess who forgot what?
I watched her squeeze the trigger at least twice,,, Seconds went by,,,

I told her: Congratulations!!!!!!! You're dead! The crucial seconds you just lost because of not being used-to a safety gave the Perp all the advantage he needed"

She see's things a bit differently now.

As always, YMMV
 
Skgreen said:
Never say never.
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Oh I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm saying people should balance the probabilities and determine which poses the greater risk. I believe that disengaging a safety can be trained for. Then again, not accidentally shooting your gun can be trained for as well. I shoot a revolver; it's a non issue for me. In autoloader, I think a safety is a must-have feature. I think for a lot of people, myself included, it is more asset than liability.
 
Since people brought it up I have never failed to disengage the safety on a 1911. How would you even get a proper firing grip with the safety up? The strong hand thumb rides on the down safety.

I have not carried a 1911 in years but I'm wondering if the people.claiming this is an issue have any real experience or training with the platform.
 
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94045 said:
Since people brought it up I have never failed to disengage the safety on a 1911. How would you even get a proper firing grip with the safety up? The strong hand thumb rides on the down safety.

I have not carried a 1911 in years but I'm wondering if the people.claiming this is an issue have any real experience or training with the platform.
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I actually have very little training or experience with a 1911 but it's not the only firearm in the world that has safety on it.
 
94045 said:
Since people brought it up I have never failed to disengage the safety on a 1911. How would you even get a proper firing grip with the safety up? The strong hand thumb rides on the down safety.

I have not carried a 1911 in years but I'm wondering if the people.claiming this is an issue have any real experience or training with the platform.
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They'll just make the claim/assume that you will have an issue while under stress while trying to defend yourself. Then they'll point to an anecdotal example they seen or heard of as proof that it'll likely happen to you... The truth is there's risk with and without having a thumb or grip safety; however, chances are more likely for a ND than having to defend yourself with a gun.

There's no right or wrong answer. Just pick one and assume the risk that comes with it.
 
Styx said:
The truth is there's risk with and without having a thumb or grip safety; however, chances are more likely for a ND than having to defend yourself with a gun.

There's no right or wrong answer. Just pick one and assume the risk that comes with it.
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Lotta truth to that
 
We're arguing about safeties and we don't even know what model the gun was. Shouldn't we be arguing about trying to clear an unholstered gun while it's in your back pocket?
OP I wish your nephew a speedy recovery. I'm glad he is alive and no one else got hurt.
 
What troubles me is in the picture of the social media post that the OP put in the first post his nephew did not take responsibility for his careless handling. He said his .380 did him dirty. Hopefully the OP can either give him some instruction in safe handling or get him to take some from someone else.

My carry pistol does not have a manual safety. I don't take it out & play with it. If I holster/unholster I am cautious to make sure nothing gets hung up in the trigger guard. Most of the time if I put it on, take it off I just leave it in the holster. If one has a quality holster with decent retention that covers the trigger guard & uses it properly everything is fine. Carelessness kills.
 
I have seen trained and practiced folks forget the safety on a 1911. It happens.
Next, the one time I was almost shot was by an ND from a 1911. A guy was told to load and make ready. He should have loaded his gun, chambered a round, put on the safety and holstered.

Well, as he holstered - Bang - obviously, no safety, finger on the trigger and a round in the ground a foot away from my foot and an inch away from the SO's toes (I was score keeper). Said dude starts waving the gun, saying: Wha happin? The SO (an old grizzled sheriff and a hell of guy, now passed, sigh) grabs him in a death grip.
 
I hope the OP comes back and tells us what gun his nephew was carrying. Probably doesn't matter. Bad gun handling will get you every time. This is why I still like DA/SA autos. They are harder to fire with the hammer down. It would be hard to snag the trigger hard enough to set one off. But anything is possible I guess.
 
I've said it before but "It'll never happen to me." is the first step to it happening to you. I try to always be a little bit scared when I handle a gun.

As for the guy who shot himself, I really don't care about his side of the story because the odds are we're never going to hear it anyway. The most important take away for me is I'm just one stupid moment away from you all looking at a picture of my ass with a bullet hole in it.
 
Man he got lucky on that one. I've had one ND that ended with an embarrassing hole in my Man Cave wall. It wasn't anywhere near my person, thankfully.

I tend to gravitate toward guns that have manual safeties/revolvers for pocket or deep concealment carry. I'm totally fine with Glocks and other striker fired guns with passive safeties if they are housed in a duty holster. I rarely find myself carrying such a gun in such a way though.

My pocket gun of choice (beyond my micro .22 mag) is the S&W Bodyguard. 380. The long DA trigger makes "safer", but I do wish it was a tick lighter or shorter. I find the LCP II easier to shoot well, but the trigger without a safety gives me a bit of a pause. It's not light, exactly. But it's "quick". I think the same external hammer of the BG married to a shorter pull would really make the gun shine. As it is, I have to walk my shots back in rapid fire as they pull to one side or the other due to the size of the gun. On the plus side, I would have to really be not paying attention to have an ND.

Part of the reason I like revolvers is that they are simple. No manual safeties, no magazine safeties that may or may not allow the gun to fire without one (if you have various guns of various flavors that support or dont support that), and you can just look at the side of it to see if it's loaded. You can of course open the cylinder and check as you should, but even a glance toward the blast shield can verify that if you see brass you need to watch your....keister;) because its loaded with SOMETHING. Might be empty cartridges or whatever, but obviously it's not wise to go yanking the trigger if you see anything obvious.

I hope the injured party heals quickly and learns a lesson. Guns are dispassionate to our lack of safe handling and Lady Luck is a fickle mistress.
 
Mike J said:
What troubles me is in the picture of the social media post that the OP put in the first post his nephew did not take responsibility for his careless handling. He said his .380 did him dirty. Hopefully the OP can either give him some instruction in safe handling or get him to take some from someone else.

My carry pistol does not have a manual safety. I don't take it out & play with it. If I holster/unholster I am cautious to make sure nothing gets hung up in the trigger guard. Most of the time if I put it on, take it off I just leave it in the holster. If one has a quality holster with decent retention that covers the trigger guard & uses it properly everything is fine. Carelessness kills.
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The first thing I did was send him a link to Jeff Cooper’s rules.
 
Ratshooter said:
Since I have had 3 NDs over the years I never say never. Yes it can happen and knowing it CAN happen to YOU makes you more cautious.
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Yes, I had one too... I was slowly dropping the hammer on a revolver while still having the trigger to the rear.. The hammer didn't slip out my fingers and as I said, I dropped it slowly, but that was still enough to ignite the round. Learned the lesson about transfer bars the hard way... Luckily the gun was pointed at the ground else I'd probably would have faced legal and/or financial troubles.
 
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