Nephew’s AD and brush with death.

[D.B. Cooper]

Are you advocating government "safety" regulations, similar to helmet and seat belt laws, for firearms?

I'm not. I choose to wear a seatbelt because I know it's safer for me to do so. I choose not to ride a motorcycle at all because I know how dangerous they can be (even if due to the actions of others). I choose to buy firearms with safeties for the same reasons. I disdain the tire pressure monitoring systems required by federal law because a.)I know how to check my tire pressure and b.)they're an added expense at winter tire change over time and c.)I haven't seen anything that convinces me I'm safer with it than without it. Thus, given the option, I would choose not to have TPMS.

In a like manner, the invisible hand of the free market has to decide. And it has decided: people overwhelming choose striker fired pistols with no manual safety over other types of handguns.

 

[Styx]

Strange how things have changed.

When we carried cocked and locked 1911’s, people freaked out when they saw the hammer back. Yes, a 5 pound trigger. With a thumb safety and a grip safety was considered kinda risqué to many.

Now, the norm is striker fired guns with 5 pound triggers, no grip safety and no thumb safety and, if you’re not real keen on that, people think you will die before you can get it into action in a gunfight.

But, since you can’t SEE the stored energy it’s perfectly safe as long as you keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

Except, that trigger doesn’t know the difference between your finger. A drawstring. A shirt tail. A corner of the holster. Etc.

I’ll take DA or a gun with an off switch.

It works better for me anyway.

View attachment 885793

Great point... Even if you carried cocked and unlocked, just about everyone in the gun community would frown on it, but if you carry a Glock, S&W, etc with a 4.5-5lb trigger, most won't make a fuss over it because it's a striker fired gun...

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Great point... Even if you carried cocked and unlocked, just about everyone in the gun community would frown on it,

There were quite a few Texas Rangers in the twenties and thirties who carried their 1911 cocked and unlocked. Some with the grip safety pinned down.

 

[jar]

Striker fired pistols have been around for well over a century now and over that period most had at least one manual safety, some several. It's only very recently that the safety itself was degraded to become something that is integrated with the trigger itself. Many folk like that but I prefer my century old striker pistols over almost all newer versions.

 

[FlSwampRat]

Keep thinking it all you want. At least I am man enough to own up to it.

Third ND. I was running rounds through a couple of new mags I had bought for a Ruger P-89. My thumb slipped off the hammer and Bam! Divot in the garage floor. No real damage except to the floor. The round was a Remington 115gr hollow point and it exploded instead of ricocheting like a FMJ.

So there's the story. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

This is exactly why I bought Snap Caps in every center fire caliber I own.

I was checking something on my first Python on NYE in 1974 waiting for a friend to pick me up to go out for a couple. Doorbell rang, I exited bedroom into dark upstairs hallway and tripped over my black lab laying on the black and blue carpet and dropped the Python which fired! Found out that the previous owner had, for some reason, defeated the mechanism that prevented the hammer from striking the firing pin without a finger on the trigger. Bullet entered the ceiling and buried itself in the roof joist. Incredibly lucky it didn't exit the roof as the roof was covered in ice and snow. So I was quite lucky that dog, roof and me remained un-holed by misadventure.

On an unrelated topic, I have discovered that when something truly frightening happens, it doesn't scare the _____ out of you, rather your sphincter tightens up and you won't be going even voluntarily for awhile.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

There were quite a few Texas Rangers in the twenties and thirties who carried their 1911 cocked and unlocked. Some with the grip safety pinned down.

I've spoken to Korean War veterans who taped down or otherwise disabled the grip safety. When you're wrestling over a gun and you need it to go off, you might not have the "right" grip, but you still need it to fire.

 

[jar]

The

I've spoken to Korean War veterans who taped down or otherwise disabled the grip safety. When you're wrestling over a gun and you need it to go off, you might not have the "right" grip, but you still need it to fire.

Ortgies has an interesting variation on the grip safety. Once squeezed it locks in the "Fire" mode until you push a button to return to "Safe" mode.

Ortgies grip safety depressed and so in "Fire" mode.


after pressing the button on left frame it returns to "Safe" mode until depressed again.

 

[Triggernosis]

Thank goodness it was "just a. 380".

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Thank goodness it was "just a. 380".

IKR. I don't want to get shot with a BB gun even. Shoot your eye out with that thing.

 

[sequins]

A lot of hate for the ND crowd and I think it's unwarranted. Accidents happen no matter what you're doing and even with rigorous processes the risk is merely mitigated. To all you guys being mean spirited and saying "how could you be so stupid" in however many words I hope you reconsider. We know it's stupid, it's not productive it's just mean spirited.


I've had an ND, like many I thought it was empty but it wasn't, put a hole in my wall. It was just like the glock fo'ty video where the guy pulls the slide back to confirm empty then loads a round when he releases the slide. I was a complete rookie, first gun, only gun owner in my family, and no one explained function to me. I had picked up "always check before handling" from osmosis but I didn't really understand how it worked. Terrifying experience and for at least 5 minutes I was genuinely surprised, "how could it be loaded, I CHECKED!" before I kinda realized how dumb I had been.

Now I'm more diligent and better educated.

 

[Styx]

A lot of hate for the ND crowd and I think it's unwarranted. Accidents happen no matter what you're doing and even with rigorous processes the risk is merely mitigated. To all you guys being mean spirited and saying "how could you be so stupid" in however many words I hope you reconsider. We know it's stupid, it's not productive it's just mean spirited.


I've had an ND, like many I thought it was empty but it wasn't, put a hole in my wall. It was just like the glock fo'ty video where the guy pulls the slide back to confirm empty then loads a round when he releases the slide. I was a complete rookie, first gun, only gun owner in my family, and no one explained function to me. I had picked up "always check before handling" from osmosis but I didn't really understand how it worked. Terrifying experience and for at least 5 minutes I was genuinely surprised, "how could it be loaded, I CHECKED!" before I kinda realized how dumb I had been.

Now I'm more diligent and better educated.

I think most people, including L.E. and very experienced gun owners, who ever had a ND thought they were immune before hand... You're right though. The belittling is mean spirited, unproductive, and adds nothing to the discussion...

 

[Old Stumpy]

Of course, my revolver has no safety, either, so, who am I to judge.

The long and comparatively heavy double action trigger pull required by a DA revolver IS a safety.
I don't think that anyone ever experienced a negligent discharge from a modern DA revolver with the hammer down. With automatic hammer blocks and transfer bars built in, even dropping them won't cause them to fire.

 

[Meeks36]

Glad he's ok it's scary! Had one in along time ago. Hole in the floor from a single shot 410. Got my butt chewed out by my paw paw. Then my son got ahold of my Glock. Put a hole in the wall. Man that taught me a lesson. He was only a foot and a half tall but he can reach up to the top of my closet. Used a 4ft step ladder. So if it's not on me it's in the safe. Then my daughter got hit with pepper spray playing with it. We live and hopefully learn from our collective mistakes.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I don't think that anyone ever experienced a negligent discharge from a modern DA revolver with the hammer down.

I bet there have been many.

 

[Old Stumpy]

I bet there have been many.

Really. Can you cite any examples? I think that you are quite mistaken.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Really. Can you cite any examples? I think that you are quite mistaken.

People lose fingers in garbage disposals, crush their cats with automatic garage doors and cause traffic accidents without ever knowing it. I can't cite any examples though so maybe I'm mistaken.

 

[Triggernosis]

I bet there have been many.

I'll bet there have been a few, but not many.

 

[ThomasT]

There have been many NDs and ADs with revolvers. Read one example in my post #64 on page 3. There is a reason that Colt single actions were carried with 5 shots and an empty chamber under the hammer. The Remington 1858 has a notch to rest the hammer nose in because they have been dropped with the hammer on a primer and the gun went off. Same with the Colts and the pins for the hammer to rest one between the chambers. S&W developed the Lemon Squeezer design because a child shot himself with a S&W gun he got a hold of. S&W added the hammer block after a sailor dropped one of the old long action guns and it went off and killed him.

Ruger redesigned the entire single action line after law suits from guns going off and being dropped with the hammer on a live round. Many PDs went to DAO revolvers after cops cocked their guns and pointed them at suspects and in the excitement fired the gun without meaning to and killed or wounded a suspect. The gunshop I used to shop at the owners dad worked there and wore some revolver but I don't know which one and dropped it and it went off and killed him. So yes. It has happened many times.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I'll bet there have been a few, but not many.

Many or few are relative trems.
The number of ND's compared to the number of firearms of any particular type could be described as few.

 

[Triggernosis]

There have been many NDs and ADs with revolvers. Read one example in my post #64 on page 3. There is a reason that Colt single actions were carried with 5 shots and an empty chamber under the hammer. The Remington 1858 has a notch to rest the hammer nose in because they have been dropped with the hammer on a primer and the gun went off. Same with the Colts and the pins for the hammer to rest one between the chambers. S&W developed the Lemon Squeezer design because a child shot himself with a S&W gun he got a hold of. S&W added the hammer block after a sailor dropped one of the old long action guns and it went off and killed him.

Ruger redesigned the entire single action line after law suits from guns going off and being dropped with the hammer on a live round. Many PDs went to DAO revolvers after cops cocked their guns and pointed them at suspects and in the excitement fired the gun without meaning to and killed or wounded a suspect. The gunshop I used to shop at the owners dad worked there and wore some revolver but I don't know which one and dropped it and it went off and killed him. So yes. It has happened many times.

Re-read what Old Stumpy said. He said "I don't think that anyone ever experienced a negligent discharge from a modern DA revolver with the hammer down."

Thus, your dissertation has nothing to do with the conversation that we are engaged in here.

 

[Old Stumpy]

There have been many NDs and ADs with revolvers. Read one example in my post #64 on page 3. There is a reason that Colt single actions were carried with 5 shots and an empty chamber under the hammer. The Remington 1858 has a notch to rest the hammer nose in because they have been dropped with the hammer on a primer and the gun went off. Same with the Colts and the pins for the hammer to rest one between the chambers. S&W developed the Lemon Squeezer design because a child shot himself with a S&W gun he got a hold of. S&W added the hammer block after a sailor dropped one of the old long action guns and it went off and killed him.

Ruger redesigned the entire single action line after law suits from guns going off and being dropped with the hammer on a live round. Many PDs went to DAO revolvers after cops cocked their guns and pointed them at suspects and in the excitement fired the gun without meaning to and killed or wounded a suspect. The gunshop I used to shop at the owners dad worked there and wore some revolver but I don't know which one and dropped it and it went off and killed him. So yes. It has happened many times.

The point is that there have very few if any NDs and ADs with DOUBLE ACTION REVOLVERS, which is what I specifically mentioned.

Also, we know nothing about the age or type of revolver that the shop owner carried or whether it was in safe working order. A Colt or S&W or Ruger DA revolver in safe working order would not have fired if dropped.

Also, I said nothing about old-fashioned Single Action revolvers and nothing about DA revolvers cocked in the SA mode. Only an idiot would attempt to holster a cocked revolver. And, if you drop a cocked DA revolver and the hammer is jarred off the sear, the hammer block or transfer bar will prevent it from firing.

And any AD or ND with a revolver or pistol in your hand with the hammer cocked is in no way comparable to an AD or ND when you are holstering a revolver or pistol. Striker-fired autos are equally as capable of an AD or ND as any other pistol or cocked revolver if you press the trigger.

The simple reality is that a DA revolver will not discharge if it catches on a sloppy holster or other obstruction, unlike a striker-fired auto pistol. The DA revolver has a 8 to 10 pound trigger pull that must be dragged back 3/4 of an inch.

A striker fired pistol requires only that the trigger be pressed lightly. Worse, the finger-tip lever requires almost no pressure and it is located in the trigger itself. ALL of the internal safeties are disabled when the trigger lever is pressed along with the trigger, which means that for a holstering type of AD or ND, striker-fired autos have NO effective safeties at all.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

All the safeties of a DA revolver are disabled when the trigger is pulled. I accept that and have a few of them along with SA revolvers SA semi autos and strikers. I practice the same rules of safety with all of them.

 

[Old Stumpy]

All the safeties of a DA revolver are disabled when the trigger is pulled. I accept that and have a few of them along with SA revolvers SA semi autos and strikers. I practice the same rules of safety with all of them.

You overlook the fact that with a DA revolver it requires an 8 to 10 pound trigger pull over a distance of 3/4 of an inch. It is obviously much more difficult to accidentally pull the DA trigger on a revolver than it is to accidentally pull the trigger on a striker-fired auto.
The finger lever is useless to prevent an ND or AD when holstering a striker-fired pistol.

 

[Old Stumpy]

In a like manner, the invisible hand of the free market has to decide. And it has decided: people overwhelming choose striker fired pistols with no manual safety over other types of handguns.

Often, because of sheer ignorance and low cost. Often because so many believe that since Glock must be perfection that no safety on a striker-fired auto must be perfection as well.

There was a time when Browning .25,.32, and .380 striker-fired pocket pistols were made, that each of them had an effective sear-blocking grip safety. Nobody used the manual safety and women carried them in handbags and men carried them in coat pockets.
Yet there were few ADs or NDs whether carelessly carried or carelessly pocketed or dropped, because the sear positively would not move unless the shooter depressed the fairly stiff grip safety first.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

You overlook the fact that with a DA revolver it requires an 8 to 10 pound trigger pull over a distance of 3/4 of an inch. It is obviously much more difficult to accidentally pull the DA trigger on a revolver than it is to accidentally pull the trigger on a striker-fired auto.
The finger lever is useless to prevent an ND or AD when holstering a striker-fired pistol.

I stand by my statement as being factual, DA revolvers go bang when the trigger is pulled.
There are lots of options in handguns so nobody needs to get one they are not comfortable with.
FYI the little trigger lever on Glocks and others is a drop safety.