New BP Shooter- Advice Needed!!

[varmintsunlimited]

Hi All-

I am a new BP shooter and need your advice and recommendations. I just acquired a .36 Cal pre civil war era Kentucky squirrel gun from an older gentlemen who claims to have had it in his family for several generations. Anyways-my gun smith installed a new nipple- cleaned it and explained its safe to shoot. What do I do now?

What kind of powder, caps, patches do I use?
What charges should I load- should i be concerned due to the age and load on the lighter side?
What are my options as far as bullets go- what do you recommend?

I appreciate your advice in advance!!

Also- See Pic's- Can anyone tell me who made this rifle or anything in general about it? The lock is stamped with "G.W. LEONARD & SON" "MADISON" "INDY". I can't find anything anywhere. Thanks again!!

 

[Ratdog68]

Congrats to ya !!! I'd start with getting on one of the web sites of folks who make/sell .36 cal guns and order up some supplies.
Track of the Wolf, Dixie Gun Works, Traditions...
You'll need some fffg powder for it, some soft lead round ball, some patches, a flask, a powder measure, I'd get a "range rod" , a nipple wrench, nipple pick, bullet starter, possibles bag, a cleaning jag, a bore cleaning brush, a patch retrieving bit, a bullet pulling bit, a barrel seat scraper, some "bore butter" (Thompson Center) product, percussion caps, and a good knife to clean your game.

Ball: .350 soft lead
Caps: #11 (or what ever size for the nipple you had installed)
Powder: fffg black powder. Start with 30 gr by volume, and a max load of 60 gr by volume. Thompson Center suggests 40 gr for their rifles' most accurate load. You'll know when the groups tighten up as to what your rifle likes.

NICE ol' stick !!! Congrats on it !!!

 

[arcticap]

What kind of powder, caps, patches do I use?

Since it's a .36 caliber, you'll want to use the finer fffg granulation or P pistol powder.
25 grains by volume is a fairly moderate powder load to begin with, and then the powder can be increased in 5 grain increments up to 40 grains or so while still maintaining a more than adequate margin of safety.

You should ask your gunsmith what size caps fit the nipple that he installed. Is it for using musket caps or standard #11 percussion caps? Most nipples are made for #11 caps but I can't say for sure from your picture.

Patch thickness is determined according to the ball diameter that's chosen in relation to the actual bore diameter. The most common patch/ball combination would be a .350 round ball and a .015 patch. The patch thickness can be increased to .018 pillow ticking if that's too loose, or lessened to .010 if it's too tight. Old guns can have a wide variation of bore diameter and tend to be looser rather than tighter.
If the patched ball selected is very loose, then ram down and tightly compress a small ball of newspaper down under the next patched ball that's loaded to act as a gas sealing wad, or buy some wool over powder wads or cards.
Always make sure that the ball is seated all of the way down on top of the powder charge or over powder wad.
A patch lube like Bore Butter is applied to the patch to help load it easier and without shredding it, and to lubricate the bore to keep fouling soft.
You'll need a nipple wrench, a powder measure and a nipple pick to clear the nipple hole if it gets clogged. A plastic spout for the powder container, or a flask for dispensing powder into the powder measure are some other important items.
How smooth is the bore of that rifle? Is it rusty at all? If it's rusty it will be tougher to clean after you shoot it and you'll probably want to use a bore brush to clean out the powder residue afterward.
Other items that you'll want is a threaded cleaning rod or ramrod for attaching accessories like a cleaning jag, patch worm or bore brush.
I would suggest to just start with the very basic supplies and see how the gun shoots before you start spending a lot of money on them. The gun may not shoot as good as you think it will. But if you do like shooting it, then you can always buy a more modern reproduction side lock and use your supplies for shooting that next one.
You really need to learn a method for pulling patches in and out of that barrel to swab and clean it from the muzzle. That's the reason why a long black powder cleaning rod and patch puller, loop or jag that will fit a .36 bore is required; for cleaning and swabbing both in the field when necessary and at home after each and every shooting session. And the right size and thickness of cleaning patches is another important item. They can be home made with some experimentation for size once you have the cleaning rod and jag to fit the bore. But if you lose cleaning patches down inside the bore, you'll need a patch worm with little wire hooks attached to it to fish them out of the barrel afterward.

 

[varmintsunlimited]

Recomendations on a good how to book?

Great Advice- thanks for taking the time to reply. Since I am not going to have you there when I take this rifle to the range the first time- can anyone recomend a good how to book to get me off the ground? Is there a "bible" - a renound publication as most facets of the shooting world typically champion as the best - even a few sugestions regardless if they are more advanced, I anticipate having a new found hobby, as I am deeply involved with almost all other facets of shooting, hunting and reloading.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[higene]

Literature

The Complete Book of Blackpowder Shooting by Sam Fadala might be considered of Old Testament status in black powder literature.

There are many other good books out there. I am sure that many will chime in with their favorites.

There is also very good electronic media on all phases of BP shooting.

The advice that you are getting on this sight is condensed, accurate information to answer the exact question that you ask. Understand, these are experienced, knowledgeable shooters answering your questions.

Higene

PS: Welcome to the Brotherhood.

 

[mykeal]

I suggest you become a member of The Muzzleloading Forum and post your gun in their Firearms Research subforum for information about it's provenance. Another option might be the American Long Rifles forum. Both have a large body of very knowledgeable folks, and they're always interested in helping someone research their gun's history.

Note: if you click on the link to The Muzzleloading Forum above I will get a membership referral credit. However, if you'd rather, you can also find the forum directly by using any internet search engine.

 

[varmintsunlimited]

A little more information

I just received this information from a historical reference:

Your gun is called a "half-stock percussion rifle". It was probably made by the man mentioned on the lock.

Not much to go on, but I quess its a start- can anyone tell me what era the "half-stock percussion rifles were made"- maybe venture to guess how old this rifle may be?

Thanks for you help!!

 

[arcticap]

It was probably made sometime between the 1830's - 1870's.
BTW, how much rust, corrosion or pitting is there inside the bore?
Do you see any when shining a light down inside of the bore at the muzzle?

The percussion cap, introduced around 1830, was the crucial invention that enabled muzzle-loading firearms to fire reliably in any weather. Before this development, firearms used flintlock ignition systems which produced flint-on-steel sparks to ignite a pan of priming powder and thereby fire the gun's main powder charge...
...In the 1850s, the percussion cap was first integrated into a metallic cartridge which contained the bullet, powder charge and primer. By the late 1860s, breech-loading metallic cartridges had made the percussion cap system obsolete. Today, reproduction percussion firearms are popular for recreational shooters and percussion caps are still available, though most now use non-corrosive compounds such as lead styphnate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_cap

 

[arcticap]

Your rifle looks like it was made in the style of a Hawken "plains rifle" except in a smaller caliber.

The Hawken rifle was a brand of black powder long rifle used on the prairies and in the Rocky Mountains of the United States during the early frontier days. It has become synonymous with the "plains rifle", the buffalo gun, and the fur trapper's gun. Born in the 1820s, it was eventually displaced by breechloaders (such as the Sharps rifle) and lever-action rifles which flourished after the Civil War...The rifles are generally shorter and of a larger caliber than earlier “Kentucky rifles” from which they descend. The style of the rifles is the same as the Harpers Ferry Model 1803, a half stock rifle (although they also made some with full stock), with the same lines as the Kentucky Rifle. The "plains rifle" style would become the "sporter" for much of the United States during the 1840s.[8]...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawken_rifle

 

[varmintsunlimited]

Bonham's & Butterfield Apprasial

From Bonham's & Butterfield are the guys that do Antiqes Road Show.

"Your rifle is correctly called a half-stock percussion rifle and was probably built between 1840 and 1860 although this type of gun was built somewhat later also. There is no listing for G.W. Leonard in any of the standard references although there were many small gunmakers in Indiana during this period. You might check the top of the barrel carefully and see if there are any markings there. Usually American rifle makers put their maker marks on the barrels as that was the main item they made. Many also made the stock and some made the furniture, i.e. triggerguard, buttplate, etc. The locks were usually purchased as the mechanism is difficult to manufacture so the lock markings rarely indicate the maker. Value for this type of firearm generally runs between $500 and $1500. Let me know if you find any markings on the barrel or if you have any other questions.
Sincerely,
James Ferrell, Specialist, Arms & Armor Dept."

 

[mykeal]

Mr. Ferrell is likely correct, in that the name on the lock is probably the lock maker and not the gunmaker.

I do feel that the Wilkipedia reference to the Hawken plains rifle has having the same lines as the Kentucky rifle is incorrect. Guns made by the Hawken brothers are unique in their lines, regardless of whether they are half stock or full stock, in my opinion.

With regard to this particular rifle, the barrel/stock proportions are not indicative of the Hawken design - the barrel is too long for a plains style rifle, and certainly too long for a half stock Hawken - , and to me suggest a hybrid: the barrel of a Kentucky or Pennsylvania long rifle on the stock of an upper midwest (perhaps Ohio or Michigan) rifle. That would put the date of manufacture closer to the 1830's than the 1860's. The lock is unusual, not one I'm familiar with, not English or Germanic which would indicate a Pennsylvania or Ohio connection.

Anyway, that's my opinion.