New Crossman Nitro gas piston F4 break barrel

[gsbuickman]

Hiya Guys .

I've been meaning to pick myself up another nice pellet rifle because my old Daisy model 881 lever action pump that I've been dragging around for more years than I care to remember has seen better days and it's gotten to the point that it's not even paper plate accurate at 100' anymore, but I guess I keep it around Just for kicks more than anything these days.

Well, late yesterday evening someone posted a Crossman F4 on our local gun Grapevine that peaked my interest so I touched bases with him and he got back to me early this morning about it. I started to do a little research on it and found out it's a break barrel design which I've always liked but it doesn't have that crappy ass spring compression power system in it that I've never liked.

It turns out this rifle is powered by the new nitro gas piston power system & it puts out 1000 - 1200 fps depending on what pellets you're shooting. In a nutshell instead of compressing a spring and releasing it when you squeeze the trigger which causes all kinds of recoil & Barrel harmonic issues that I've never liked, with the nitro gas piston system when you break the barrel to work the action you further compress a compressed nitrogen gas cylinder that drives a gas piston that pushes the air that pushes the pellet out of the chamber and down the barrel when you squeeze the trigger, which I think is a really slick design & it seems to work really well.

Overall it seems to be a really nice air rifle. I'm not real fond of the plastic stock that it's setting in but I do like the thumbhole design and it's actually nicer than a lot of the plastic Tapco stocks that I've seen on other rifles & it does have a nice little rubber recoil pad on it. He also upgraded this from the cheap scope that was on it to a still cheap but nicer CV Life 3_9x40. It has a nice rifled bull barrel and I do like the safety in front of the trigger. The safety is on a positive detent and when its flipped back against the trigger it locks the trigger in place so the rifle can't be fired, but when you flip the safety forward away from me trigger unlocks the trigger group it's ready to fire. I was just outside doing some shooting off my balcony into the tree in the yard and I'm impressed. This thing is extremely accurate and it's just as loud if not louder than most of my 22's with about the same or a tad less recoil then most of my 22's. All in all it's the nicest pellet rifle I've had to date and it's far better than the 1000 fps spring-powered break barrel piece of crap that I picked up in a trade and then sold last summer in every way possible. In the end I think I got a damn nice deal for $50, now I wonder what it'll take or if I can find a nice laminate or wood thumbhole stock to drop the barrel and receiver in ...

 

[gsbuickman]

 

[fpgt72]

Good deal on the new air rifle.

One thing however, there is no difference between a spring and gas piston in how they work and make power. One is a metal spring the other is compressed gas, you still have the double recoil....that is about it.

One other thing is if you are pesting you can leave a gas spring cocked with no danger of it taking a set.

 

[gsbuickman]

Good deal on the new air rifle.

One thing however, there is no difference between a spring and gas piston in how they work and make power. One is a metal spring the other is compressed gas, you still have the double recoil....that is about it.

One other thing is if you are pesting you can leave a gas spring cocked with no danger of it taking a set.

Actually, I've been outside for the last hour or so drinking coffee and shooting this thing and it's much smoother than a spring power break barrel rifle & this does not have the "Twang" immediately followed by that horrible double recoil that really screws with Barrel harmonics & poi. This F4 does have a bit of recoil, however it's a different type of recoil much like The Recoil from a high velocity 22lr round. When shooting this into an open area that has a bit of and echo to it results in a sharp "crack" as the pellet goes supersonic, but shooting in a more enclosed area that's not prone to echo and it's a lot quieter . The rifle is surprisingly accurate with a good solid shooting position but it has a long creepy trigger that definitely needs addressed. I was hoping this model had the Timmy style adjustable trigger unfortunately it does not so I'll have to look at some trigger job options.

 

[Chevota]

As mentioned it's the same as a coil spring except you don't have the spring twang. Technically the spring rate is different too but it doesn't really affect the feel except for cocking. So the gas spring is harder to cock but most people don't notice bc the peak cocking effort is only slightly more. The starting of the stoke is ~2.5 to 3x harder. It ends up being stronger overall so barrel harmonics are actually worse.
Spring twang is fixable btw, which I always do bc that noise is unacceptable imo. All the gas spring in my Crosman/Benjamin B18 have leaked, which yours is too. Not sure if they've improved it since my newest is maybe 4yrs old, but a new spring is $30 delivered. Not a big deal but who knows how long the new one will last which is why I stopped buying them. You also have the option of putting a coil in, which is ~ $20 for all the parts including spring.
They generally only do the advertised velocity with the lightest pellets, but with a tune you can get it to shoot a std 7.9gr at 1000. I normally get just over 1000 w/ 8.44 JSB. 1k is a bit too fast so 10.5gr work better, like the 10.34 JSB or 10.5 H&N Baracuda Match which are also the most accurate on avg. The BC is excellent on those two so you get more range and better trajectory at range. I also like the H&N Crow Magnum hollow points, which I like bc they actually work, unlike most HP's. Not as accurate and best at say 150' or less but they're devastating. Not sure what you're shooting now but I'd highly recommend the aforementioned.
I can send you info on the trigger if you want, and tuning overall. I have several trigger mods from sucks to day/night better, but the latter is a pita if you're aren't a tools kinda guy. Optionally you can buy an aftermarket trigger thats almost as good as my best mod, but it's like $35.
Yes you can swap stocks easy and they're pretty cheap. My fave is the Benjamin Regal stock which is ~$22. The old Regal, not the new Regal II. My 2nd fav is the Trail Hardwood which is $29 which is likely the most expensive. No laminates. The Trail All Weather stock is synthetic and ~24oz heavier than a wood one which is nice bc it dampens the firing cycle but I wouldn't want to carry it around.
The Stoeger X20 (also a B18) stock is very nice but no clue how much $. Only Crosman sells parts cheap so my guess is double, if they'll sell it at all. Your stock isn't bad lookin, and if it's the hollow hard plastic type you have the option of putting foam and/or silicone sealer in it to dampen noise and vibes. I have one hard/hollow Crosman stock and noise wise it's like a drum. My other syn Crosman is the Trail AW I mentioned which is a softer rubbery plastic and very thick. The AW stock 35oz heavier than the thin hard one.
You also have the option of getting a suppressor barrel for it which is ~$20 if you recycle your old misc parts, or ~$10 more if you buy all new. You can also change it to .22 if you want, or as some peep do, get both and mod it so it's easy to swap them quickly. I never tried but I think one could swap on a modded gun in <60sec, but sighting it in is something else. It's nice to try both so you can see which you like. I think most prefer 22 but I like 177 in your power range, and 22 for a magnum like the Trail XL.
One drawback is the guns, and barrel, are chinese, and the quality of the barrel can be tolerable to horrible. If they were compared to firearms they'd all be a F, unless there's a grade below F. So when you buy one of these, or a barrel, it's a roll of the dice. I always put suppressor barrels on but I had to buy more barrels than I have guns to do it, plus I work on the barrels and overall accuracy is on avg, ok at best. If you have an acceptable barrel you can put a suppressor on it, or an even better NP2 suppressor, but either way you have to thread your barrel.
chevota at hotmail if you (or anyone) want the tuning/trigger guide. It also has all kinds of stuff for noobs, like scope shim, parallax and tons more. Like if your new scope is for a centerfire rifle then your parallax will be way off, but regardless it should at least be checked and adjusted if needed. I usually adj to ~70'.

 

[gsbuickman]

I spent a couple hours outside early this afternoon drinking coffee & shooting theNitro F4 while most everyone in the neighborhood was off to work and school. It's MOA accurate @ 25 yds or so from a comfortable shooting position but I've decided the creepy trigger needs to be addressed. I actually found a trigger adjusting screw above and behind the trigger but I had to remove the trigger guard to get access to it . After playing with it for a while I've got it to where the trigger pull is smoother and lighter but it's still a long pull before it breaks . I found a video on YouTube from an air gun channel that may further help. They're working on a Crosman Benjamin with the same trigger in it and they pull the factory 3x5mm trigger adjustment screw out and replace it with a longer 3x10mm screw from The Hobby Shop to get more adjustment out of the trigger so maybe I'll give that a try .

 

[fpgt72]

Sounds like Chevota is the man on this, and he can correct me if I am wrong....and I am likely to be wrong as I am old and this stuff gets mixed up in my peanut brain.

Some of those screws just move the engagement point on the sear, so take care....you could end up with a unsafe trigger and have that barrel wacking you in the bean.

Do some reading, and know just what those adjustments do.

Sounds like you got a good one, hope the gas ram holds up...they have been iffy.

It really is the same technology that holds up the back deck on your wifes minivan or the hood....it is not new, and I have not seen one that does not leak after a while....but you are right they are pretty darn smooth....just like a well tuned metal spring.

 

[gsbuickman]

As mentioned it's the same as a coil spring except you don't have the spring twang. Technically the spring rate is different too but it doesn't really affect the feel except for cocking. So the gas spring is harder to cock but most people don't notice bc the peak cocking effort is only slightly more. The starting of the stoke is ~2.5 to 3x harder. It ends up being stronger overall so barrel harmonics are actually worse.
Spring twang is fixable btw, which I always do bc that noise is unacceptable imo. All the gas spring in my Crosman/Benjamin B18 have leaked, which yours is too. Not sure if they've improved it since my newest is maybe 4yrs old, but a new spring is $30 delivered. Not a big deal but who knows how long the new one will last which is why I stopped buying them. You also have the option of putting a coil in, which is ~ $20 for all the parts including spring.
They generally only do the advertised velocity with the lightest pellets, but with a tune you can get it to shoot a std 7.9gr at 1000. I normally get just over 1000 w/ 8.44 JSB. 1k is a bit too fast so 10.5gr work better, like the 10.34 JSB or 10.5 H&N Baracuda Match which are also the most accurate on avg. The BC is excellent on those two so you get more range and better trajectory at range. I also like the H&N Crow Magnum hollow points, which I like bc they actually work, unlike most HP's. Not as accurate and best at say 150' or less but they're devastating. Not sure what you're shooting now but I'd highly recommend the aforementioned.
I can send you info on the trigger if you want, and tuning overall. I have several trigger mods from sucks to day/night better, but the latter is a pita if you're aren't a tools kinda guy. Optionally you can buy an aftermarket trigger thats almost as good as my best mod, but it's like $35.
Yes you can swap stocks easy and they're pretty cheap. My fave is the Benjamin Regal stock which is ~$22. The old Regal, not the new Regal II. My 2nd fav is the Trail Hardwood which is $29 which is likely the most expensive. No laminates. The Trail All Weather stock is synthetic and ~24oz heavier than a wood one which is nice bc it dampens the firing cycle but I wouldn't want to carry it around.
The Stoeger X20 (also a B18) stock is very nice but no clue how much $. Only Crosman sells parts cheap so my guess is double, if they'll sell it at all. Your stock isn't bad lookin, and if it's the hollow hard plastic type you have the option of putting foam and/or silicone sealer in it to dampen noise and vibes. I have one hard/hollow Crosman stock and noise wise it's like a drum. My other syn Crosman is the Trail AW I mentioned which is a softer rubbery plastic and very thick. The AW stock 35oz heavier than the thin hard one.
You also have the option of getting a suppressor barrel for it which is ~$20 if you recycle your old misc parts, or ~$10 more if you buy all new. You can also change it to .22 if you want, or as some peep do, get both and mod it so it's easy to swap them quickly. I never tried but I think one could swap on a modded gun in <60sec, but sighting it in is something else. It's nice to try both so you can see which you like. I think most prefer 22 but I like 177 in your power range, and 22 for a magnum like the Trail XL.
One drawback is the guns, and barrel, are chinese, and the quality of the barrel can be tolerable to horrible. If they were compared to firearms they'd all be a F, unless there's a grade below F. So when you buy one of these, or a barrel, it's a roll of the dice. I always put suppressor barrels on but I had to buy more barrels than I have guns to do it, plus I work on the barrels and overall accuracy is on avg, ok at best. If you have an acceptable barrel you can put a suppressor on it, or an even better NP2 suppressor, but either way you have to thread your barrel.
chevota at hotmail if you (or anyone) want the tuning/trigger guide. It also has all kinds of stuff for noobs, like scope shim, parallax and tons more. Like if your new scope is for a centerfire rifle then your parallax will be way off, but regardless it should at least be checked and adjusted if needed. I usually adj to ~70'.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll shoot you an email and take a look at that info you got. The stock on this F4 is a nice solid polymer / resin type stock and it doesn't look bad and it's actually a nicer stock than most any of the aftermarket Tapco stocks I've seen on anything else but I'm not a polymer kind of a guy and I like a nice wood stock and that Regal or Benjamin Trail hardwood stock is exactly the kind of furniture I was looking for. This has an upgraded 3_9x40 CV Life from Wally Fart which imo is still a cheap Chinese scope but it's night and day better than the cheap piece of crap that was on it and this is surprisingly accurate for a pellet rifle so apparently this is one of the "Good" .177 barrels , but if I can get a nice 22 Barrel I might just upgrade it .

 

[Chevota]

fpgt72; you are 100% correct. And yes it simply moves the sear closer to release so it can be risky, especially when people dial it in to where they like it. To make the mod a little better you need to lighten the trigger return spring, but if you open it up you should choose another mod.
I gave him my guide which includes several trigger mods for that gun, including the above, and I note it's "the lamest of the mods" but for people unwilling to take the gun apart it's the only option.

GS: Super sweet on the moa bc that's extremely unusual, so much so that I think you're fibbin, or made a mistake in your calculations. If it truly is then you might consider encasing the gun in a glass box and putting it on display at the Smithsonian, or selling it to me for dissection
My first Crosman break barrel, a Titan, at 10yrds was closer to 60moa outta the box, which is not uncommon.
So considering all the other stuff hurting accuracy, like the barrel lockup/side play, it's only going to get better w/ a tune. Or if it's some mystery magic, you may lose said magic when you open it up. Lotta people do that w/ all kinds of things, like engines, and end up worse after they "improve" it. Speakin of engines, is your GS an old 455? I had a '70 Riviera 455 ~8yrs ago but my only mod was bumping the timing up 10+ degrees bc it was bone stock and ultra cherry. You can see it here, the red one pix # 3&4: http://carswithmuscles.com/1970-buick-riviera
Interior was actually in better cond than the ex. Off topic but had to share...

 

[gsbuickman]

fpgt72; you are 100% correct. And yes it simply moves the sear closer to release so it can be risky, especially when people dial it in to where they like it. To make the mod a little better you need to lighten the trigger return spring, but if you open it up you should choose another mod.
I gave him my guide which includes several trigger mods for that gun, including the above, and I note it's "the lamest of the mods" but for people unwilling to take the gun apart it's the only option.

GS: Super sweet on the moa bc that's extremely unusual, so much so that I think you're fibbin, or made a mistake in your calculations. If it truly is then you might consider encasing the gun in a glass box and putting it on display at the Smithsonian, or selling it to me for dissection
My first Crosman break barrel, a Titan, at 10yrds was closer to 60moa outta the box, which is not uncommon.
So considering all the other stuff hurting accuracy, like the barrel lockup/side play, it's only going to get better w/ a tune. Or if it's some mystery magic, you may lose said magic when you open it up. Lotta people do that w/ all kinds of things, like engines, and end up worse after they "improve" it. Speakin of engines, is your GS an old 455? I had a '70 Riviera 455 ~8yrs ago but my only mod was bumping the timing up 10+ degrees bc it was bone stock and ultra cherry. You can see it here, the red one pix # 3&4: http://carswithmuscles.com/1970-buick-riviera
Interior was actually in better cond than the ex. Off topic but had to share...

Ha ha, I had a few fliers till I got the scope figured out & found my hold, but the next five or six shots blew the center out of a dr. Pepper can at 25 yards or so. I call that pretty damn good, so yeah I'll take it ...

 

[gsbuickman]

I've been sitting out on the balcony blasting the 2 Dr Pepper cans laying at the base of the tree about 25 yds or so away. I got the scope figured out a little better and it shooting about an 1/8" high just above the crosshairs. I was going to bring it up a notch or two but I think I'll leave it right where it's at because it should be spot-on at 50 - 60 yds or so. For being an air rifle this thing is a tack driver and it's a hoot to shoot ..

 

[fpgt72]

Be careful.

About all I can say.

 

[gsbuickman]

Yep, I play it safe and only plink early in the day if I'm home while everyone is gone to work and the kids are at school

 

[gsbuickman]

I declared it a lazy day today and I've been puttering around the house most of the day but I noticed that the Landscaping crew showed up to mow the grass and stuff like they do every week and they picked up the empty soda cans that I had strategically placed around the yard to plink on occasion & I decided to do something about it that was a little more permanent. I recently finished off a 14" pecan / apple spice pie and I still had the empty pie pan so I decided to make myself a swinging gong w/ a backstop & hang it on the tree in the yard . I trimmed about a 1/4" off the length of a $7 USPS flat rate priority shipping box and it fit perfectly inside the empty pie pan. I packed it full of layered cardboard and then rubber cemented it it to the inside of the pie pan and hung it from the tree with a lag bolt and Fender washer. I'll be able to hear it hit the pan loud and clear and the backstop will stop the pellets but it will also deaden the sound so it's not so loud .

 

[Chevota]

I wonder how a golf ball on a chain would be? Or on a spring so it will quickly stop swinging? Seems like they'd last a long time and the perfect size to simulate vermin... Damn, now I'm going to have to find a golf ball.....
So the neighbors don't complain about the noise?

 

[fpgt72]

Pellets tend to bounce off of golf balls, and end up going god knows where....I would suggest something a bit different.

 

[gsbuickman]

At first golf balls might seem like a good idea and they would last a long long time, however as it's been mentioned they would cause a serious Ricochet issue and that's the last thing I want to do. If I were going to do something like that I would probably use a tennis ball instead. Not only do I think they would absorb the impact of the pellet I think the pellets would end up getting trapped inside them

 

[gsbuickman]

Well, I did some more shooting with the air rifle this morning and played with the magnification on this 3_9x40 Wally China fart scope and I can tell you it sucks and I'll probably end up replacing it with a 4x Weaver or my 3x9 Nikko Stirling, because when I zoom in on the target with the magnification it does zoom in but I can't focus it clearly so I can see the impacts on the target so it's gotta go . I don't know how or why but if you're wondering how accurate this rifle is, here's a three-shot group shooting from a rusted position using the same hold & I have a single ragged exit hole using the bulk Copperhead pellets ..